Chapter 11 Announced - Part 7 - Plan 5.0 - Voting/Confirmation

[Eagle1993]

This topic is to discuss the legal bankruptcy case against the BSA.  

The 2nd amended, 5th plan is currently going through voting of all parties.  The current plan can be found here:

https://casedocs.omniagentsolutions.com/cmsvol2/pub_47373/b69d49f8-8dab-4023-9ab9-ba341c6340d2_7832.pdf

Voting is currently underway by each of the claimant classes below.  The expectation is that each class must approve the plan (>66% of votes cast must say yes) for it to be considered.  Most of the focus will be the "direct abuse claims" which total around 84,000 and the primary focus of the bankruptcy plan.  

• 2010 Credit Facility Claims Impaired 
• 2019 RCF Claims Impaired 
• 2010 Bond Claims Impaired 
• 2012 Bond Claims Impaired 
• Convenience Claims Impaired 
• General Unsecured Claims Impaired 
• Non-Abuse Litigation Claims Impaired 
• Direct Abuse Claims Impaired 
• Indirect Abuse Claims Impaired 

Once voting is complete, the court will review the vote, go through various objections and if still ok, start plan confirmation hearings.  Current timing indicated plan confirmation hearings would start February 22.

For an overall guide to various bankruptcy topics, go here:

https://www.scouter.com/topic/32827-bankruptcy-topic-guide-stop-here-first/

 

[ThenNow]

10 minutes ago, Eagle1993 said:

Current timing indicated plan confirmation hearings would start February 22.

Two parts: (1) confirmation hearing; and (2) trial. Count on a month in total, give or take. My bet is on give, but we shall see.

[DuctTape]

question... do other secured creditors "unrelated" to the survivors claims also vote on the bankruptcy provisions, or do these creditors vote on their separate piece? If the latter, how does the bankruptcy balance these since both parties are in effect in conflict?

[1980Scouter]

I think this bankruptcy will drag on for a least another year or until the BSA runs out of money and does a chapter 7.

I wonder if they will ask LC to contribute to their defense and operating funds to keep the BSA operating longer.

[ThenNow]

22 minutes ago, 1980Scouter said:

I think this bankruptcy will drag on for a least another year or until the BSA runs out of money and does a chapter 7.

From a survivor claimant perspective, with these phased, contingent and tiered settlement structures, let’s say more like 15 years. I’m literally cringing typing this, being forced to see it on the screen. Ever been in surgery and you outrun the anesthesia? Yeah. Exactly. I think I had about a two year concentration of propofol in the bag, and even then the dose was woefully inadequate.

[Eagle1993]

1 hour ago, DuctTape said:

question... do other secured creditors "unrelated" to the survivors claims also vote on the bankruptcy provisions, or do these creditors vote on their separate piece? If the latter, how does the bankruptcy balance these since both parties are in effect in conflict?

Based on my understanding - Each voting group is counted separately.  It is up to the plan to balance out these groups while also creating a 5 year plan that is viable.  
 

Note that one topic that is coming up.  Should all direct abuse claims be lumped together, or should they be treated separately if they take the lump sum or are inside/outside SOL.

[Eagle1970]

5 hours ago, ThenNow said:

From a survivor claimant perspective, with these phased, contingent and tiered settlement structures, let’s say more like 15 years. I’m literally cringing typing this, being forced to see it on the screen. Ever been in surgery and you outrun the anesthesia? Yeah. Exactly. I think I had about a two year concentration of propofol in the bag, and even then the dose was woefully inadequate.

I'm almost 66 and won't allow this to consume my setting sun.  I'm NOT headed to court.  Missouri has its head up its @ss with trying for 10 years to eliminate the civil SoL for child sexual abuse.  The lawmakers let it die every time since 2013.  I don't think they ever really considered BSA victims.  Mostly it was alter boys and Marianist students.  Either way, the Insurers and Churches beat it down.  I moved away.   It is what it is.  Funny how they had NO problem eliminating the criminal SoL.  Let the state have its way and torture the victims while they testify and risk their lives.  But we ain't gonna make our insurance companies pay you no money!  I will never understand just how they can justify eliminating the criminal SoL but not so much as a window for civil.  Please explain it to me.

I do understand you seeking justice through your state court.  Most states are more reasonable than Missouri.  And yes, there are theories, such as delayed realization and various forms of concealment, but I don't have it in me.  Lord knows I had NO IDEA of how badly this abuse had impacted me until I joined the BSA BK club.  But I'm going to take the chump change they offer in the bk and give them all the information on the predator.  However, I'm not testifying, prosecuting, suing or anything else.  When I was younger, I really wanted to.  I couldn't sue because I was just past my civil SoL AND my abuser was protected by a criminal SoL.  Now he's not.  He's old, I hope he's dead.  I'm getting old too.  Just have to get past this.

 

 

 

[RememberSchiff]

21 hours ago, Eagle1993 said:

....

Once voting is complete, the court will review the vote, go through various objections and if still ok, start plan confirmation hearings.  Current timing indicated plan confirmation hearings would start February 22.

I hope the impact of the Purdue case is top of the list, e,g,, reorg plan releases for insurers and nonprofits that are not also in chapter 11 are illegal.

Reference (behind a paywall)

https://www.wsj.com/articles/boy-scouts-bankruptcy-plan-hinges-on-releases-deemed-illegal-in-purdue-case-11640214516

[johnsch322]

I have been reading statements from survivors that they are now getting calls from coalition lawyers telling them that they filled out their ballots incorrectly and need to vote again.  These claimants are saying that they know they voted correctly and they all say they voted no.  The coalition lawyers are urging them to revote thru the coaltions e-ballot. Other survivors are urging them to contact the court. Reviewing the votes is going to be a mess.

[Eagle1993]

25 minutes ago, johnsch322 said:

I have been reading statements from survivors that they are now getting calls from coalition lawyers telling them that they filled out their ballots incorrectly and need to vote again.  These claimants are saying that they know they voted correctly and they all say they voted no.  The coalition lawyers are urging them to revote thru the coaltions e-ballot. Other survivors are urging them to contact the court. Reviewing the votes is going to be a mess.

If I were voting, I would cast my vote with Omni.  I would then check to see how my final vote was recorded.  If my lawyer switched my vote, I would complain to the court, complain to the bar and look for lawyers who sue other lawyers.   What is being alleged in these letters is just wrong.  

[skeptic]

Should we be surprised?  From the outset, there have been predators, from the legal system, preying on victims, including causing some, perhaps many, who have learned over time to deal with their personal demons to relive the pain and suffering at some level.  And mostly, this was more for money than real concern for victims.  JMO of course.  But, to me, it is part and parcel of the messed up legal system that preys on victims with hype and promises, not caring if it may cause renewed emotional trauma, or affect others that in reality have little or nothing to do with the original trauma.  Far too many "lawyers" that play the system, not for real justice, but simply with avarice, caring little if anything for the actualities of their action.

[johnsch322]

25 minutes ago, skeptic said:

Should we be surprised?  From the outset, there have been predators, from the legal system, preying on victims, including causing some, perhaps many, who have learned over time to deal with their personal demons to relive the pain and suffering at some level.  And mostly, this was more for money than real concern for victims.  JMO of course.  But, to me, it is part and parcel of the messed up legal system that preys on victims with hype and promises, not caring if it may cause renewed emotional trauma, or affect others that in reality have little or nothing to do with the original trauma.  Far too many "lawyers" that play the system, not for real justice, but simply with avarice, caring little if anything for the actualities of their action.

I doubt that there was many survivors “who learned to live with their demons” in a type of life that you have lived. Also for every survivor who the sick feeling that may have come more awake there are more survivors who as result of this bankruptcy have sought out help and have been able to bond with others. 
I am not sure where you are in life but for many of us we finally feel empowered against the system that abused us. 

[Eagle1993]

1 hour ago, skeptic said:

Should we be surprised?  From the outset, there have been predators, from the legal system, preying on victims, including causing some, perhaps many, who have learned over time to deal with their personal demons to relive the pain and suffering at some level.  And mostly, this was more for money than real concern for victims.  JMO of course.  But, to me, it is part and parcel of the messed up legal system that preys on victims with hype and promises, not caring if it may cause renewed emotional trauma, or affect others that in reality have little or nothing to do with the original trauma.  Far too many "lawyers" that play the system, not for real justice, but simply with avarice, caring little if anything for the actualities of their action.

I think there are multiple types of lawyers involved.  I have seen lawyers who seem to know their claimants well, understand their case, vetted their claim, kept them updated and are fighting for them in all aspects.  I respect those lawyers and have no issue with them.  Then there are lawyers who trolled the internet to build a large group of claimants, have no clue and likely don’t care about their claims and are simply trying to get a settlement so they can charge their large fees while doing minimal work for individual claimants.  I wish those lawyers never got involved in this case. 
 

What is sad about bankruptcy is that each claim doesn’t get it’s time in court.  Some may be false.   Some may not be the fault of BSA at all.  Others the BSA is to blame or LCs or COs. Bankruptcy just lumps them together and says here is a check.   It would have been if this could have remained outside bankruptcy but unfortunately BSA didn’t have the money to defend the onslaught. 
 

Hopefully we are closer to the end than the beginning for all involved.

[Eagle1970]

38 minutes ago, Eagle1993 said:

Then there are lawyers who trolled the internet to build a large group of claimants, have no clue and likely don’t care about their claims and are simply trying to get a settlement so they can charge their large fees while doing minimal work for individual claimants.  I wish those lawyers never got involved in this case. 
 

 

I have never seen any type of settlement involving real dollars where the claimant didn't have to, at least, give some detail.  I welcome the opportunity to tell my story.  Actually, it would help me get through this all.  But I would wager there is a big number of claimants that would drop off totally if they had to do the same.

[ThenNow]

4 hours ago, Eagle1993 said:

If I were voting, I would cast my vote with Omni.  I would then check to see how my final vote was recorded.

This is exactly what I set my mind to do (and did) as soon as I knew we would vote. I feared for a bit that I/we would be precluded based on “facially invalid,” closed state claims. I badgered Omni to get the direct contact info for the person in charge and made sure to get confirmation promptly and definitively. It may be just me, but there is no way I would trust an electronic submission on something like this, especially since we were given a hard copy option.

3 hours ago, skeptic said:

From the outset, there have been predators, from the legal system, preying on victims, including causing some, perhaps many, who have learned over time to deal with their personal demons to relive the pain and suffering at some level. 

See below.

3 hours ago, johnsch322 said:

I doubt that there was many survivors “who learned to live with their demons” in a type of life that you have lived.

I believe Skeptic was, in part, speaking of survivors like me who had resolved to accept no recompense or apology and just forge ahead. Living with my demons is an ongoing process in therapy and through my spiritual journey. As many here know, I had reluctantly arrived at that resolution in November 2019 and the filing came 2+ months later. Now, I find myself in purgatory. (Apologies to my devout Catholic comrades.) 

2 hours ago, Eagle1993 said:

I have seen lawyers who seem to know their claimants well, understand their case, vetted their claim, kept them updated and are fighting for them in all aspects.  I respect those lawyers and have no issue with them.  Then there are lawyers who trolled the internet to build a large group of claimants, have no clue and likely don’t care about their claims and are simply trying to get a settlement so they can charge their large fees while doing minimal work for individual claimants.  I wish those lawyers never got involved in this case. 

I know some attorneys in this case who about ruined themselves interviewing and vetting potential clients PRIOR to allowing them to file a claim naming their firm as counsel. I’m not sure how they did that with privilege issues, but that’s beside the point. I know I repeat myself, but a good number of attorneys are literally doing nothing, allowing the TCC and Coalition to carry the water. Ok. They’re waiting for the dust to settle and the Skiball game to spit out the looooong string of tickets. You may have differing opinions about what the TCC and/or Coalition have done and are doing, but I am certain they are engaged and working. Forget about the hounding clients about the vote for the purpose of this post. That’s inexcusable, as Eagle1993 stated very well.

Edited December 23, 2021 by ThenNow