G2SS a suicide pill?

[Eagledad]

I agree with every word of Jameson76's post. When our troop reached 100 scouts, 45 of the scouts were 14 and older. And the average age our scouts were awarded Eagle 16.5 years old. 

Barry

[elitts]

1 hour ago, SSScout said:

..... up to a point

At IOLS, I always mention the The Three Words No Scoutmaster Wants To Hear:

"" HEY !  WATCH THIS ! ""

Or worse yet...

Hey! Record me!

[Eagle94-A1]

23 hours ago, InquisitiveScouter said:

Fixed that for you 😜

Thank you.

The word earned should have been in quotations marks.

Like many others,  i have had Scouts stick arpund after earning Eagle because we had .

23 hours ago, InquisitiveScouter said:

Fixed that for you 😜

Thank you.

The word earned should have been in quotations marks.

Like many others,  i have had Scouts stick arpund after earning Eagle because we had .

[RichardB]

@Eagle94-A1 Perhaps there are other options or motivations behind the incredible opportunity to keep youth (and adults) safe when doing the Scouting program.   For those on this forum that continue to put folks at risk in the name of Scouting, please stop.  

As a reminder the current Scouting program which some of you proport on these forums to be chartered to operate:

1) has no option for youth only activities without adult supervision.  https://www.scouting.org/health-and-safety/gss/gss01/#a

2) has limits by design: "Some activities considered by youth and leaders are not compatible with the Scouting program. Some have unacceptable risks that have been confirmed by serious or even fatal consequences. Others are not compatible with the Scout Oath and Scout Law.   Source: https://www.scouting.org/health-and-safety/gss/gss07/#b 

3) May no longer be compatible with what some on this forum did when they were youth or young adults for any number of reasons.    https://www.scouting.org/health-and-safety/safety-moments/unauthorized-restricted-activities/  

May you all have a happy thanksgiving holiday, maybe some time with your family or Scouts free from illness, injury and incident reporting requirements,  or being called out on social media.  

[RememberSchiff]

A New Scout on the Old Trail ... the spirit of adventure.

https://www.theodorerooseveltcenter.org/Research/Digital-Library/Record/ImageViewer?libID=o285595

A young "Boy Scout" standing outside his tent meets "Davy Crockett, Buffalo Bill, Texas Jack [Omohundro], Kit Carson, California Joe, [and] Dan'l Boone." Caption: "Put it thar, Pard! Yer do us proud!"  Artist Will Crawford 1869-1944

Edited November 23, 2021 by RememberSchiff

[Eagle94-A1]

@RichardB

I  know better than to not follow the rules. So I do my best to keep up with BSA policies to the point that I have often had to tell my council's professional staff what is and is not allowed by BSA as they are not aware of the latest rules.

My biggest problem is that BSA continues to break the first point of the Scout Law, Trustworthy, with the repeated lie in the FAQ found here https://www.scouting.org/health-and-safety/prohibited-activities-faqs/ , that "Dodgeball has never been an authorized activity in Scouting."

As I have shared with you and others repeatedly THAT IS A LIE (emphasis). You may recall that I first brought up the lie to you when I shared with you  the Troop Program Resources book's link on the Scouting.org website stating Dodgeball, and several variants, was an approved game AFTER the prohibition came about and the lie was mentioned the FAQ. You may recall you thank me for pointing it out, and then promptly had the book removed.

If national was to remove the lie and simply state:

"Games and sports that involve participants throwing objects at each other, including dodgeball, have caused concussions and traumatic brain injuries, broken bones, and ankle injuries. There is also an aspect of bullying in the game, which has led to its removal from other youth-serving organizations. We are monitoring the results of gaga ball; at this time, we consider gaga ball appropriate if the activity is set up, monitored, and supervised following manufacturers’ guidelines. "

I would have no problem. But  whomever is creating the FAQ is not being Trustworthy. If you can get that altered, I would very greatly appreciate it.

 

And I hope you have a great Thanksgiving too.

 

 

 

Edited November 23, 2021 by Eagle94-A1

[skeptic]

47 minutes ago, Eagle94-A1 said:

@RichardB

I  know better than to not follow the rules. So I do my best to keep up with BSA policies to the point that I have often had to tell my council's professional staff what is and is not allowed by BSA as they are not aware of the latest rules.

My biggest problem is that BSA continues to break the first point of the Scout Law, Trustworthy, with the repeated lie in the FAQ found here https://www.scouting.org/health-and-safety/prohibited-activities-faqs/ , that "Dodgeball has never been an authorized activity in Scouting."

As I have shared with you and others repeatedly THAT IS A LIE (emphasis). You may recall that I first brought up the lie to you when I shared with you  the Troop Program Resources book's link on the Scouting.org website stating Dodgeball, and several variants, was an approved game AFTER the prohibition came about and the lie was mentioned the FAQ. You may recall you thank me for pointing it out, and then promptly had the book removed.

If national was to remove the lie and simply state:

"Games and sports that involve participants throwing objects at each other, including dodgeball, have caused concussions and traumatic brain injuries, broken bones, and ankle injuries. There is also an aspect of bullying in the game, which has led to its removal from other youth-serving organizations. We are monitoring the results of gaga ball; at this time, we consider gaga ball appropriate if the activity is set up, monitored, and supervised following manufacturers’ guidelines. "

I would have no problem. But  whomever is creating the FAQ is not being Trustworthy. If you can get that altered, I would very greatly appreciate it.

 

And I hope you have a great Thanksgiving too.

 

 

 

While I personally understand your point, I feel calling it a lie may be a poor choice of words.  To me, it is simply a sloppy use of words.  Too many today are unable to write concisely.  

[elitts]

7 hours ago, RichardB said:

@Eagle94-A1 Perhaps there are other options or motivations behind the incredible opportunity to keep youth (and adults) safe when doing the Scouting program.   For those on this forum that continue to put folks at risk in the name of Scouting, please stop.  

As a reminder the current Scouting program which some of you proport on these forums to be chartered to operate:

1) has no option for youth only activities without adult supervision.  https://www.scouting.org/health-and-safety/gss/gss01/#a

2) has limits by design: "Some activities considered by youth and leaders are not compatible with the Scouting program. Some have unacceptable risks that have been confirmed by serious or even fatal consequences. Others are not compatible with the Scout Oath and Scout Law.   Source: https://www.scouting.org/health-and-safety/gss/gss07/#b 

3) May no longer be compatible with what some on this forum did when they were youth or young adults for any number of reasons.    https://www.scouting.org/health-and-safety/safety-moments/unauthorized-restricted-activities/  

May you all have a happy thanksgiving holiday, maybe some time with your family or Scouts free from illness, injury and incident reporting requirements,  or being called out on social media.  

Boy, I'm not sure why you want to set people's teeth on edge before you offer input, but you sure do a good job at it.  It's not the way I'd try and persuade folks, but I'll assume you have a reason.

I put my scouts at risk at pretty much every camp-out, it's called "adventure".  Last campout they went trail (bike) riding and we had 2 kids take headers off their bikes when they hit stuff.  One kid got what I assume was a really really mild concussion cause he went headfirst into a tree (a little dizzy for 3-4 seconds), the other got a long shallow scrape down his wrist.  They also used hatches and an axe, threw tomahawks, were moving stuff into and out of the fire (foil dinners).  All of these are approved Scouting activities.  So we aren't talking about "keeping kids safe" when the program revolves around inherently unsafe activities, we are talking about "what level of being unsafe is acceptable".

My big issue is that the occasional, objectively stupid, rules/reasoning in the G2SS shakes confidence in the document as a whole.  It's kind of like if I came across a (medical) Doctor who happened to be a Flat Earther.  They might be giving me entirely reasonable medical advice, but as soon as I know they think the Earth is Flat, everything else they say is getting filtered through the feeling of "Yeah, but this guy's an idiot who thinks the world is flat".

So when the BSA tells me that "safety" requires restricting 6-7 year olds from being allowed to use a hand-held paint brush to "help" on their older sibling's Eagle Project, I start wondering what kind of nutjob came up with the safety standards.  It doesn't cause me to ignore the rest of the rules, but it makes me wonder "what else in here doesn't make sense?".

Edited November 23, 2021 by elitts

[mrjohns2]

15 hours ago, elitts said:

So when the BSA tells me that "safety" requires restricting 6-7 year olds from being allowed to use a hand-held paint brush to "help" on their older sibling's Eagle Project,

Does it really? Where?

[Eagle94-A1]

4 hours ago, mrjohns2 said:

Does it really? Where?

Here is the chart. https://filestore.scouting.org/filestore/healthsafety/pdf/680-028.pdf

Lions ( ages 5 or 6) and Tigers (ages 6 or 7)are prohibited from  using hand held paint brushes  (that will put a damper on those packs that do PWD workshop nights where everyone is working on their PWD cars, including painting them in some cases).

And only Webelos and older can use paint rollers.

 

 

[malraux]

4 hours ago, mrjohns2 said:

Does it really? Where?

 

If you scroll down to the grid of who can do what on a device project, lion and tiger youth are not checked for paintbrushes/painting.

[malraux]

1 minute ago, Eagle94-A1 said:

Lions ( ages 5 or 6) and Tigers (ages 6 or 7)are prohibited from  using hand held paint brushes  (that will put a damper on those packs that do PWD workshop nights where everyone is working on their PWD cars, including painting them in some cases).

Nitpick, this defines only the tool use during a service project. But PWD is not part of a service project, so the document explicitly says it doesn't apply.

[Eagle94-A1]

22 hours ago, skeptic said:

While I personally understand your point, I feel calling it a lie may be a poor choice of words.  To me, it is simply a sloppy use of words.  Too many today are unable to write concisely.  

I would call it a sloppy use of words IF no one at National was informed about this. HOWEVER, RichardB, and others,  were notified of the error as early as February 2018 when the ban went into effect. Yet the untruth, fib, hoax, deception, misinformation, disinformation, misinformation,  fabrication, etc remains.

 

4 minutes ago, malraux said:

Nitpick, this defines only the tool use during a service project. But PWD is not part of a service project, so the document explicitly says it doesn't apply.

Wait, it will come. In my experience, National will start a ban for one activity, and slowly move on to others.  

[Eagle1993]

First, I do thank @RichardB for commenting on this forum. Most from National wouldn’t and it’s great that he participates.  Also, I do think the last version of G2SS made some updates that helped, specifically regarding use of tools.  
 

Perhaps there are some specific areas that we think could be relooked at.  I get the complaints about patrol only activities with no adults.  Perhaps there could be flexibility there.   I’m not sure it is possible in today’s world of liability but perhaps.  I cannot think of many clubs in high school that meet without adults present … 

I know dodgeball comes up and that impacted our troop as nearly every meeting ended in dodgeball.  We’ve excepted it and moved on.   To be fair, most schools in my area have also banned dodgeball so I don’t see this coming back. 
 

Lasertag is one that we find a bit odd.  Nearly every kid in our Troop has played lasertag.  Most have played paintball and many airsoft.  They know the difference between real guns and gun safety and toy guns.  Perhaps it is more about simulation of war and not wanting BSA to look like a paramilitary institution.  I’m not sure. 
 

What other aspects of G2SS are causing overburden?   Perhaps there are some that could be relooked at just as the tools section was.  

[malraux]

1 minute ago, Eagle1993 said:

What other aspects of G2SS are causing overburden?   Perhaps there are some that could be relooked at just as the tools section was.  

At the cub level, the requirements can be a burdensome. Two deep leadership at every den meeting, and requiring female leaders, even when parents are always present gets tough.