What happens when you finish your Wood Badge ticket but are not beaded?

[Armymutt]

I'm on the fence about WB.  What put me on the fence was having a beading ceremony during our den meetings night that took about 30 minutes.  The kids - K through 3rd grade - had no idea what was going on, other than some adult stranger was giving a den leader a neckerchief and talking a lot.  They were bored.  Violated the Keep it Fun principle.  If I did WB, I would do the ceremony at an adult event.  I like to keep the program youth focused.  About the only thing I would want to do related to adults is to hand out square knots with a quick round of applause at the end of an awards ceremony.  I make it a point to thank the adults regularly anyway.  It's a habit I carry over from work, where I thank my team for their hard work every few days.

[DuctTape]

Recognition and handing out a patch to adults, ok.

A ceremony, no. 

If the time exceeds that which is provided for a scout to recieve his awards, it was too long.

[Jameson76]

9 hours ago, Armymutt said:

I'm on the fence about WB.  What put me on the fence was having a beading ceremony during our den meetings night that took about 30 minutes.  The kids - K through 3rd grade - had no idea what was going on, other than some adult stranger was giving a den leader a neckerchief and talking a lot.  They were bored.  Violated the Keep it Fun principle.  If I did WB, I would do the ceremony at an adult event.  I like to keep the program youth focused.  About the only thing I would want to do related to adults is to hand out square knots with a quick round of applause at the end of an awards ceremony.  I make it a point to thank the adults regularly anyway.  It's a habit I carry over from work, where I thank my team for their hard work every few days.

We had a leader who got beaded (is that a verb??) at a regular meeting.  Supposedly was going to be a 5 minute portion of the meeting.  Actually was about 45 minutes.  To our Scouts credit they sat through it.  Bets comment was one of our leaders who stage voiced to the other guys in the back "this is why I never want to go to WB"

At the end of the day it is training.  There are many things in Scouts that take at least as much (or more) time commitment as WB.  This is ADULT training, and should be awarded, if wanted, in a setting where those that can appreciate it are in attendance.  Saw one going on at a the local camp one weekend where it was other WB disciples and they were beading folks.  Keep it in-house.

 

[mashmaster]

Wood Badge attitude leaves a very bad taste in my mouth about it.  The amount of hype that people talk about it makes me not recommend it to other scouters.  It is a class on project management not scouting(I have been a project manager and had all this type of training outside of scouting).  I did have fun in the class with my crew when we weren't staring at powerpoint slides.  IOLS, OWLS, Sea Badge, and Powderhorn are all better than Woodbadge  (The difference is that all those focus on scouting).  Maybe it is my council, but the people selected for the course staffing is all political and they bounce around talking about how they are special because they are staffing WB.  I was asked once but was too busy working with the youth in the units I am involved with.  And the tickets...... don't get me started on the tickets......

Anyway, welcome to the forum!  Have the 5 minute max ceremony at a district roundtable or district board meeting since those are where you are involved.  You should not be used as propaganda for WB. 

[SSScout]

1 hour ago, mashmaster said:

Wood Badge attitude leaves a very bad taste in my mouth about it. 

Well there ya go.   Despite the National Curriculum, All  Scouting Is Local.   The WB is locally produced and staffed.  It is meant to be a "Management" course and a reinforcement of the "Scout Led"  (adult mentor-management)  idea.   The local folks can give it the bad taste, unfortunately. 

We hope for the "AHA !"  moment , not the "OH NO!"  or "HO HUM" moment..... 

One of the courses I attended/staffed had a wonderful older Scouter in attendance.  He had an interesting story. He traveled the country attending various WB courses. He said to me he had attended 12 so far, and enjoyed the different types (attitudes?) he encountered.  I did not ask him (maybe I should have) if he passed on his observations to proper folks involved. 

See you on the trail..... 

[Eagledad]

54 minutes ago, mashmaster said:

Wood Badge attitude leaves a very bad taste in my mouth about it.  The amount of hype that people talk about it makes me not recommend it to other scouters.  It is a class on project management not scouting(I have been a project manager and had all this type of training outside of scouting).  I did have fun in the class with my crew when we weren't staring at powerpoint slides.  IOLS, OWLS, Sea Badge, and Powderhorn are all better than Woodbadge  (The difference is that all those focus on scouting).  Maybe it is my council, but the people selected for the course staffing is all political and they bounce around talking about how they are special because they are staffing WB.  I was asked once but was too busy working with the youth in the units I am involved with.  And the tickets...... don't get me started on the tickets......

Anyway, welcome to the forum!  Have the 5 minute max ceremony at a district roundtable or district board meeting since those are where you are involved.  You should not be used as propaganda for WB. 

I don’t agree it’s project management training, it’s team management training. The objective is to teach understanding of goals and vision, then build and manage the team of adults to work toward those goals.

Personally I believe the tickets is the most important part of the course for two reasons: first tickets force the participant to focus exactly what their role is on the team. Second, the tickets are supposed to be practicing the expectations specific to their role on the team. Typically more than 50% of the course participants don’t know what they will be doing in the unit or team they are volunteering on, so if the course staff is guiding the participants correctly, they are helping to clarify to the participant their role as a volunteer. And the staff is guiding the tickets to be specific to the expectations of the participants role.

woodbadge gets a bad name when the staff doesn’t understand the purpose of the course, or each other’s staffing roles in the course. So, they act out the course syllabus without defining why they are playing their roles. As a result, participants graduate without understanding how to define goals and vision, or how to build and mange the team to work towards those goals and vision. I can look at a participants ticket and see instantly if they know what they are doing. Each ticket item should relate to a specific skill for their one specific role. When a new Troop ASM creates a ticket to lead the planning of a camporee, I will have a discussion and likely prevent a terrible camporee. And what about the CM who couldn’t recruit leaders and was taking on Webelos Leader and Tiger Leader.  With guidance, her tickets worked toward recruiting and training so she could just be a CM and save her from a fast burnout. Possibly saved the unit from dieing.

Maybe the problem is WB is complicated and requires more training for the trainers.

Barry

[5thGenTexan]

I don't know what to do about WB.  My bad experience was detailed last year.  After that year, I am still not inclined to try again.  I have come to believe WB is successful for only certain personality types.  People that are excited and engaged to attend that type of training I think are more likely to have a good experience.  Honestly, I have almost zero tolerance for role playing, and games,, and songs, etc.  I would be more than happy to sit through a couple of days of the leadership training itself.  In fact, in January I am signed up for UoS with almost an entire day of Troop Committee admin type stuff.

Now... I have been involved as an adult leader for 5 year, (this year).  I have been a DL the entire time, I was CM, ran camp cards and a fundraiser on our own, did memebership one year.  I have led the effort to create a new Troop for Girls that is very successful right now.  I will be CC for the Boy Troop at the first of the year.  I was a Cub Scout and got Arrow of Light and was a Boy Scout for a time, so I feel like I kinda get the program side of it. 

I don't feel like I am a bad leader because I havent finished WB...  I just cant get past all the silly stuff that is required during the course.

[Eagledad]

Ironically, our council developed a youth leadership course that was designed more like a business professional leadership course. The scout participants slept in cabins and meals were provided to them like summer camp. The scouts were arranged in groups of PLCs and had to develop the course schedule from the first moment they walked into their first class. The main objectives we wanted the participants to take home to their troop was a distinctive understanding of how a PLC planned and implemented patrol activities. 

Many folks didn’t understand why we didn’t put the participants in patrols so they could experience Patrol Method. It was simple, the minimum age for the course was 14; most of the scouts had been experiencing Patrol Method for over 3 years. Plus, the course wasn’t teaching patrol level leadership, it was teaching unit level management of patrols based from the BSA SPL Handbook. The scouts enjoyed the more professional formate because they experienced the real challenges of responsibility (and humility) of planning campouts and activities.

Scouts and Scoutmasters loved the course, but many adults were scared of the independence given to the scouts. So, NYLT replaced the course. And the scout participants, like WB adults, are back in patrols.

Barry

Edited November 12, 2021 by Eagledad

[mrjohns2]

8 hours ago, 5thGenTexan said:

I just cant get past all the silly stuff that is required during the course.

I was worried my WB was going to be full of silly stuff and too much rah-rah. It wasn't. I had a good time getting to know the members of my patrol and we are still connected. I thanked the staff for not making it too corny. They said they would make it as corny as the participants wanted. You don't sound like you want to try WB again. If you did, I would suggest doing it in another council. I am looking to be on staff this next year, if chosen. One reason is I want to influence the culture of it. The other is to be a good patrol guide and not focus too much on the staff.

[mashmaster]

11 hours ago, Eagledad said:

I don’t agree it’s project management training, it’s team management training. The objective is to teach understanding of goals and vision, then build and manage the team of adults to work toward those goals.

Personally I believe the tickets is the most important part of the course for two reasons: first tickets force the participant to focus exactly what their role is on the team. Second, the tickets are supposed to be practicing the expectations specific to their role on the team. Typically more than 50% of the course participants don’t know what they will be doing in the unit or team they are volunteering on, so if the course staff is guiding the participants correctly, they are helping to clarify to the participant their role as a volunteer. And the staff is guiding the tickets to be specific to the expectations of the participants role.

woodbadge gets a bad name when the staff doesn’t understand the purpose of the course, or each other’s staffing roles in the course. So, they act out the course syllabus without defining why they are playing their roles. As a result, participants graduate without understanding how to define goals and vision, or how to build and mange the team to work towards those goals and vision. I can look at a participants ticket and see instantly if they know what they are doing. Each ticket item should relate to a specific skill for their one specific role. When a new Troop ASM creates a ticket to lead the planning of a camporee, I will have a discussion and likely prevent a terrible camporee. And what about the CM who couldn’t recruit leaders and was taking on Webelos Leader and Tiger Leader.  With guidance, her tickets worked toward recruiting and training so she could just be a CM and save her from a fast burnout. Possibly saved the unit from dieing.

Maybe the problem is WB is complicated and requires more training for the trainers.

Barry

Fair enough about team management vs project management.  

The tickets of some made me scratch my head, a lot.  

Anyway, back to scouting.

[SiouxRanger]

14 hours ago, 5thGenTexan said:

I don't know what to do about WB.  My bad experience was detailed last year.  After that year, I am still not inclined to try again.  I have come to believe WB is successful for only certain personality types.  People that are excited and engaged to attend that type of training I think are more likely to have a good experience.  Honestly, I have almost zero tolerance for role playing, and games,, and songs, etc.  I would be more than happy to sit through a couple of days of the leadership training itself.  In fact, in January I am signed up for UoS with almost an entire day of Troop Committee admin type stuff.

Now... I have been involved as an adult leader for 5 year, (this year).  I have been a DL the entire time, I was CM, ran camp cards and a fundraiser on our own, did memebership one year.  I have led the effort to create a new Troop for Girls that is very successful right now.  I will be CC for the Boy Troop at the first of the year.  I was a Cub Scout and got Arrow of Light and was a Boy Scout for a time, so I feel like I kinda get the program side of it. 

I don't feel like I am a bad leader because I havent finished WB...  I just cant get past all the silly stuff that is required during the course.

I too have zero tolerance for role playing, games, and such.  I really don't need that to motivate me.  But, nearing the end of my scouting career, the wife of a great, life-long scouting friend of mine-both of them are strong Wood Badge folks, (4 leaders:) looked at me at a scouting dinner and asked, "Why haven't you taken Wood Badge?"

Well, I have a lot of Scouting experience and just didn't think it would help me or that I would fit in.  I said, "I'M NOT IN THE BUSINESS OF DISAPPOINTING MRS. XXX, (her) I SAID I'D GO." 

And, I just resolved to go along with the 2 weekends and then the Ticket.

The weekends were a bit corny, definitely very high energy, and tolerable to fun.  Made some great contacts.

But the critical value was the Ticket.  I have posted earlier, that the purpose of the Ticket was not made very clear but I finally figured it out.

You need to complete 5 Ticket Items.  Put 8 or 10 in your Ticket. If one or more becomes impossible, and they can, you have others you can do.

Your Ticket items should be things you'd love to see implemented in the level of Scouting where you volunteer.  I am largely at Troop level, so I had Ticket Items regarding improving Troop Meeting agendas, and campfire programs..  The kids loved it.

The Big Question is "What Can I FIX?"  Then make those items Ticket Items.

And on the other side of the equation, most of my adult career has dealt with ugly, so 6 days of "corny," well a break.  I had a good time.

And trying a Wood Badge course in a different Council is also a viable idea.

 

 

[fred8033]

On 11/12/2021 at 6:34 AM, Jameson76 said:

Saw one going on at a the local camp one weekend where it was other WB disciples and they were beading folks.  Keep it in-house.

I love that answer. 

Perhaps it would fit nicely with an OA conclave.  WB recipients could be recognized.

[satl8]

When I was a Troop Guide for a patrol, one of the participants wanted a private ceremony. So we met at a steakhouse and with his wife and mom there, I did a small meaningful beading on the patio.

Same patrol, another gentleman asked for his beads/cert/necker to be sent to his house.

Did 3 others at either Troop meetings (2) or Roundtable (1)

The last course I staffed, they seem to like the group beadings, so the Course Director sets up a day and anyone that was staff or a participant come to the local camp and those that are "finished" get beaded. This one usually includes a pot luck dinner and lasts a bit longer since everyone is there specifically for a beading ceremony.

The big point is that it is your recognition and how you would like to recieve it is a very personal choice. Work with your Troop Guide or Course Director and find a solution.

[MikeS72]

38 minutes ago, satl8 said:

Same patrol, another gentleman asked for his beads/cert/necker to be sent to his house

As did I 48 years ago.

[fred8033]

22 hours ago, satl8 said:

The big point is that it is your recognition and how you would like to receive it is a very personal choice. Work with your Troop Guide or Course Director and find a solution.

Easy to agree with that.  

I don't agree that you get to choose for other people.  Don't hijack district or unit mtgs where other people don't get a choice.  A shorter time is acceptable, but don't cross the minute threshold without others having a choice.