Citizenship in Society - MBC Orientation

[scoutldr]

Boy Scouts of America Embraces Critical Race Theory – PJ Media

[Navybone]

2 hours ago, scoutldr said:

Boy Scouts of America Embraces Critical Race Theory – PJ Media

I don’t think posting a very biased attack on the MB from some very conservative website is very helpful to the conversation, especially when most of the article is based on supposition about MB could and how it could be manipulated rather than how it is actually written.  

[DuctTape]

On 11/7/2021 at 10:40 AM, Navybone said:

I don’t think posting a very biased attack on the MB from some very conservative website is very helpful to the conversation, especially when most of the article is based on supposition about MB could and how it could be manipulated rather than how it is actually written.  

Not surprisingly the article headlines with "critical race theory" to rile up its readers without even defining it, nor attempt to explain how the mB embraces it. I doubt the author or most of it readers even know what CRT really is. 

And for the record, while I support the principles embodied by the mB, I do not support the creation of a new additional (not forgetting to mention required) citizenship mB. IMO the existing mBs should be rewritten to include the principles and include more "doing". For example a "Do one of the following: a. attend a rally or speech in support of rights for historically marginalized citizens. or b. interview a person from a... or c. or or or" Something like that.

[Oldscout448]

To sort of quote Rodney King " Can't  we all just go camping?"

[fred8033]

1 hour ago, DuctTape said:

... And for the record, while I support the principles embodied by the mB, I do not support the creation of a new additional (not forgetting to mention required) citizenship mB. IMO the existing mBs should be rewritten to include the principles and include more "doing". ...

Agreed.  If the program ever stabalizes (law suits, finances, membership, woke, etc) ... the MB program will need to be re-organized.  In 2022, 14 of the 21 Eagle MBs will be explicitly required.  Leaving 7 to be chosen by the scout.  Of course the scout can always do more, but I'd really like to see the MB program truely matching the advertisement to explore and discover new skills and new careers.  Too much feels like a weak immitation of school. 

Even the communication MB.  Instead of the communication MB, couldn't we have a Life Rank requirement to design and MC a troop COH.  Isn't the commnication MB requirement to teach a skill overlapping with previously emphasized EDGE requirements.  ...

I don't mean to knock every MB, but we have too much school in scouting and too little explore, discover and have adventures.

[SiouxRanger]

54 minutes ago, fred8033 said:

the MB program will need to be re-organized.

 

56 minutes ago, fred8033 said:

In 2022, 14 of the 21 Eagle MBs will be explicitly required.  Leaving 7 to be chosen by the scout.

 

54 minutes ago, fred8033 said:

I don't mean to knock every MB, but we have too much school in scouting and too little explore, discover and have adventures.

This is a huge topic, but I agree that a complete review is required.

My bio, resume, or whatever it is, on my profile, many positions held for 5 to 15 years simultaneously, I have had extensive experience as a scout, camp and Philmont Ranger Staff (one year responsible for the training of the entire Ranger staff), observing, teaching, and mentoring scouts, my three sons included.

I have noted a tremendous diminution in the outdoor skills learned, or that are required to be learned, by scouts.  And that few to none have actually mastered them.

There is much to be said for requiring scouts to be organized in their thinking and in the expression of that thinking (written, spreadsheets), but adding that to the program to the extent that it has been, seems to have diminished and out-paced the former focus on outdoor skills.  Scouting seems much more like school than development through outdoor education.

Scouting today is not what is was when I was forming to become a fossil.

But, I can save a life (Lifesaving was required in my day-I have), build a fire in a pouring rain, select a campsite on high ground devoid of widow makers, navigate, make shelter, signal searchers, select edible plants, and TIE MY KNOTS.

And schools teach (perhaps) spreadsheets, but not fire-building or knots.  Or Lifesaving…

There is some balance to be struck, but what we have now, I do not think is it.  I have seen many Eagle Scouts-ALL of them to be exact-who could not build a fire.  Even in ideal conditions.

So, some of it is the result of technology.  Tents are all clips-no knots.  Some sort of snap together, so "step back as it assembles itself."

Who needs to build a fire, learn their wood types, make coals, tend the fire, and cook dinner?  Nobody-we've got stoves!

At Philmont in the 1970's, breakfast and dinner were cooked over wood fires.  Just think of the time that that took.  And crews still made it to program at the next camp.  Today, with cold breakfasts and lunches, crews struggle to make it to the next camp for program (well, not all of them).

Just some perspective on how Scouting has changed.

Limiting Scouts to a mere 7 elective merit badges and the rest being heavily bookish, seems unbalanced to me.

 

[Sentinel947]

On 11/7/2021 at 10:40 AM, Navybone said:

I don’t think posting a very biased attack on the MB from some very conservative website is very helpful to the conversation, especially when most of the article is based on supposition about MB could and how it could be manipulated rather than how it is actually written.  

The internet is a funny thing, I interpreted the article as a complete joke. The author was trying to be serious, buts a such a wild stretch of an argument. 

[Navybone]

24 minutes ago, Sentinel947 said:

The internet is a funny thing, I interpreted the article as a complete joke. The author was trying to be serious, buts a such a wild stretch of an argument. 

unfortunately, way too many people think PJ Media is actual news and believe what it is post on it.  The ability to post anything on the internet without having to ensure that it is true, based on fact or even rhymes with the truth, coupled with such sites only confirming peoples bias is really dangerous.  It has become pervasive and contributed to the political discourd that exists today.

[qwazse]

Chatting with a scout dad last night …

”I only made it to 1st class, or was it star?”

”Did you have fun?”

”Oh, yeah!”

[mashmaster]

4 hours ago, qwazse said:

Chatting with a scout dad last night …

”I only made it to 1st class, or was it star?”

”Did you have fun?”

”Oh, yeah!”

Yeah, one reason I am not a fan of advancement per se.  So many people focus on Eagle that it becomes the sole goal of scouting.  Many "Eagles" are paper thin on the rest of scouting.  Advancement is only one method of scouting but it is the most most easily tracked.

For example my son who is a BOR away from Eagle took his time, he decided he wanted a big Eagle project that is massive (his choice so we supported him and it came out great), attended World Jambo, 3 of the 4 high adventure bases (Philmont twice), worked with his Troop/Ship/Crew to plan and particpate in three roll you own adventures, attended three other regional high adventure bases, attended NYLT, and held just about all the positions across the PLC or Quarterdeck.  But if you ask him about what scouting is about he will tell you that it is fun.  He is proud that he will make Eagle but will talk your ear off about World Jamboree or sailing if you let him.

I made it all the way to Tenderfoot or Second Class myself, I don't remember.  I grew up poor and didn't have money to scout or the support from my parents so that didn't happen.  I love scouting and have more knots than I know what to do with.  People are surprised that I wasn't an Eagle, I tell them that doesn't matter to me, I am happy to work with and help the kids.  Of course I get the option to attend some of the adventures as well 🙂 I let scouts know that in our ship if they want to advance Scouts BSA ranks or Sea Scout ranks I will help them and push them a bit, but if they don't, I am fine with that as well.  I'd rather see them smile and attend than be only focused on advancement and grumpy.  There choice to what they want.  Rank doesn't define them.

[MattR]

12 hours ago, fred8033 said:

If the program ever stabalizes (law suits, finances, membership, woke, etc) ... the MB program will need to be re-organized. 

Here's my ABSOLUTELY FREE,  Brilliant idea of the day. 

For each MB write a companion pamphlet that a patrol can use to have fun/challenge/interest/service doing the subject of the MB. It would be similar to program features but would include requirements that would lead to a patch or ribbon for a patrol flag. Also, there would be no talking requirements, just doing as a patrol. Also,  completing such a patrol badge would not imply anything about the associated MB.

A lot of fun could go into making patrol badges. So, for art MB as an example, a service project could be for a patrol to paint a mural on a wall. For welding, a patrol could weld a frame for a soap box car.

All the normally fun MBs would be easy to turn into a patrol badge. If nobody can think of how to make a patrol-MB for a normal MB, then maybe that MB needs reconsideration.

That's the end of my brilliant idea. Do not use within 30 minutes of swimming. Do not take with grapefruit, grapefruit juice, or lima beans. Do not take while operating heavy machinery or while trying to cancel your cable subscription. Call a doctor immediately if, while using this idea, you start having hives, hot flashes or a desire to sing repeat after me songs.

[InquisitiveScouter]

35 minutes ago, MattR said:

If nobody can think of how to make a patrol-MB for a normal MB, then maybe that MB needs reconsideration.

This^^^  If the Patrol Method is the heart of Scouting, then this logically follows.

 

[fred8033]

8 minutes ago, mashmaster said:

But if you ask him about what scouting is about he will tell you that it is fun. 

Yeah.  I'm a HUGE BELIEVER in scouting is fun.  Hanging with long-term friends.  Adventures.  Learning things you would not see otherwise.  ...  It's why I'm so so disappointed in the MB program.  I can way more easily accept cooking as a MB than I can several of the others.  

All my sons have had adventures they will never forget.  Sadly, many of the MBs were just a waste and a poor rehash of school.  Perhaps, I'd accept the MB program way more if the program was more action oriented.  Personally, I wish my sons never saw a MB fill-in-the-blank worksheet.  A complete excitement killer.