Former Youth Protection Director on the dangers in Scouts BSA

[InquisitiveScouter]

1 minute ago, malraux said:

While I understand the point, its hard to balance the goal of checking everyone who accompanies a group with a rule of every part of the program is open to parents to observe.

Not really...we do this, for overnighters.  Wanna camp out with us? Gotta have a background check...

[Eagle1993]

1 minute ago, InquisitiveScouter said:

Not really...we do this, for overnighters.  Wanna camp out with us? Gotta have a background check...

That is how our GSUSA Troops do it.  There is 0% chance I can be near the kids without registering.

[CynicalScouter]

3 minutes ago, malraux said:

While I understand the point, its hard to balance the goal of checking everyone who accompanies a group with a rule of every part of the program is open to parents to observe.

"In light of 100 years of child sexual abuse inside scouting, we have to ensure that anyone who has overnight access to a scout is criminal background checked. This applies to everyone, so please don't feel you are being singled out or picked on."

There, done.

[RememberSchiff]

IMHO, Mr. Johnson should have had someone review and edit his arguments.

[CynicalScouter]

1 minute ago, Eagle1993 said:

That is how our GSUSA Troops do it.  There is 0% chance I can be near the kids without registering.

I stood with my daughter at cookie booths. Cookie booths. Broad daylight. Registered adult leaders (GSUSA style). Background checked.

[Eagle1993]

MJ referenced this document:

https://www.cdc.gov/violenceprevention/pdf/preventingchildsexualabuse-a.pdf

Screening and Selecting Employees and Volunteers

Who should be screened? 

Screen all applicants, both adults and adolescents, for all positions that will have contact with youth. • Consider more in-depth written applications and personal interviews for adolescents, for whom work history and criminal background checks may be unavailable. • Rigorously screen applicants who will have more autonomy as employees or volunteers. • Do not make exceptions for people you know or have worked with in the past

Written application

The written application provides the information you need to assess the background and interests of applicants. Questions should help you determine whether applicants have mature, adult relationships as well as clear boundaries and ethical standards for their conduct with youth. The sidebar on page 6 may help you develop appropriate questions. • Ask about previous work and volunteer experiences. • Ask questions pertinent to child sexual abuse screening. • Provide a permission form for contacting personal references and performing a criminal background check. The permission statement should include an indemnification clause developed by an attorney to protect your organization from false allegations or other legal issues. • Ask open-ended questions that encourage broad answers. These will provide material for follow-up in the personal interview and throughout the screening and selection process. • Use disclosure statements to ask applicants about previous criminal histories of sexual offenses, violence against youth, and other criminal offenses. The applicant may not disclose past offenses, but the inquiry will demonstrate your organization’s seriousness about protecting youth and potentially discourage applicants at risk for perpetrating child sexual abuse. • Clarify that you are interested in learning about an applicant’s past perpetration of child sexual abuse rather than a history of victimization.

Personal interview

The personal interview provides an opportunity to meet applicants, determine if they are a good fit for your organization, and ask additional questions to screen for child sexual abuse risk factors. The sidebar on page 6 may help you develop interview questions. • Ask open-ended questions that encourage discussion. • Clarify and expand upon the applicant’s answers to questions from the written application.

 

[CynicalScouter]

Just now, Eagle1993 said:

Personal interview

This is IN THEORY what the CORs are supposed to be doing. As we know: it doesn't happen or if it does, it is rare.

[johnsch322]

2 minutes ago, Eagle1993 said:

That is how our GSUSA Troops do it.  There is 0% chance I can be near the kids without registering.

My ex wife had to go to the RCMP in Canada for a background check before she was allowed to go on an overnight with our daughters Girl Scout/Girl Guide troop.  And we paid for it out of our pocket.

[johnsch322]

4 minutes ago, RememberSchiff said:

IMHO, Mr. Johnson should have had someone review and edit his arguments.

Someone meaning who? and Why?

[CynicalScouter]

Just now, johnsch322 said:

My ex wife had to go to the RCMP in Canada for a background check before she was allowed to go on an overnight with our daughters Girl Scout/Girl Guide troop.  And we paid for it out of our pocket.

Yep, eh (sorry, had to).

What I bet is going to happen is that this is going cause major issues with some dads who have (non-sexual-offense) criminal records that they do NOT want disclosed but they still want to go camp with their sons. As soon as they get confronted with the need to clear a CBC, they'll pull their kids out of scouting (rather than just, you know, not camp).

[Eagle1993]

1 minute ago, CynicalScouter said:

This is IN THEORY what the CORs are supposed to be doing. As we know: it doesn't happen or if it does, it is rare.

They include the following questions.  Looking through the CDC guidelines, I do have to agree our vetting is pretty poor.

What type of supervisory situation do you prefer?

If applicants are very independent, they may not fit in an organization whose policies and procedures require close supervision.

What age/sex of youth do you want to work with? How would you feel about working with a different age/sex?

If an applicant seems fixated on one age/sex, be wary. However, it may be that the applicant has experience or is gifted with working with certain age groups. Asking follow-up questions about why an applicant has a strong preference can help you determine if there is cause for concern.

Is there anyone who might suggest that you should not work with youth? Why or why not?

Why do you want the job?

What would you do in a particular situation?

Set up scenarios that involve potential concerns, boundary issues, or youth protection policies and interactions to gauge the applicant’s response. Be concerned if applicants disregard the organization’s policies and procedures or handle a situation poorly. •

What makes you a good candidate for working with youth? What would your friends or colleagues say about how you interact with youth?

What other hobbies or activities do you enjoy?

Determine if applicants have mature, adult relationships—not just relationships with youth.

[johnsch322]

2 minutes ago, CynicalScouter said:

Yep, eh (sorry, had to).

What I bet is going to happen is that this is going cause major issues with some dads who have (non-sexual-offense) criminal records that they do NOT want disclosed but they still want to go camp with their sons. As soon as they get confronted with the need to clear a CBC, they'll pull their kids out of scouting (rather than just, you know, not camp).

Even Uber and Lyft require background checks.  I know of someone who wasn't able to be a Lyft driver because of drug and assault convictions 20 years ago.  Funny though Uber allowed him to drive.

[CynicalScouter]

1 minute ago, johnsch322 said:

Someone meaning who? and Why?

 

6 minutes ago, RememberSchiff said:

IMHO, Mr. Johnson should have had someone review and edit his arguments.

According to the PDF's metadata, the PDF was created by Joelle Casteix. Maybe she reviewed?

https://www.snapnetwork.org/joelle_casteix

https://twitter.com/joellecasteix?lang=en

 

[Eagle94-A1]

18 minutes ago, malraux said:

While I understand the point, its hard to balance the goal of checking everyone who accompanies a group with a rule of every part of the program is open to parents to observe.

There will be a lot of Cub families that will walk away. Not because they have something to hide, but rather they cannot afford the fees that BSA will be charging in order to do the CBC. I see the 72 Hour rule as a result of Cub Scouts, not Scouts BSA, Sea Scouts, and Venturing. And BSA will definitely need top change the parent policy, which will make it seem like we are hiding something.

As for my troop, the only time non-registered adults camp with us is A. Webelos visiting with their parents and B. Parent who has submitted Application (which includes CBC authorization), has completed YPT, and approved by COR ( or IH as he is more accessible at times), and the application and fee is sitting in the council office. sadly the council has not gone to online adult applications yet.

EDITED Forgot to add also the the 18 y.o. Eagle whose paperwork is at council office as well.

 

Edited October 12, 2021 by Eagle94-A1

[CynicalScouter]

1 minute ago, Eagle94-A1 said:

I see the 72 Hour rule as a result of Cub Scouts, not Scouts BSA, Sea Scouts, and Venturing

Yeah, I can see that this will absolutely devastate Cub Scouts unless BSA is prepared to pick up the tab for thousands upon thousands of criminal background checks (at least).