Former Youth Protection Director on the dangers in Scouts BSA

[ThenNow]

16 minutes ago, HelpfulTracks said:

1 hour ago, ThenNow said:

Stats are the current dead pony, I believe. Names was another carcass that has been descended upon by a wake of buzzards. A new one of the same name and nature will drop from the sky shortly. And, for the record and as to the wake, I refer not members of my profession, but the actual raptors, so please don’t fine me.

Sorry sir, I am far to simple to understand your prose. Though I have no doubt it is well intended. 

1) At the time of that posting, the debate was over the release of statistics;

2) Prior to that, IV Files and names were being bludgeoned, er, discussed and whipped to a pulp (beating a dead horse);

3) Said items in #2, above, were so trampled upon by so many words that they were starting to smell, attracting birds that pick clean dead carcasses;

4) I was thinking the debate over releasing IV Files and names would “circle back,” once the metaphoric activities in #3 had been completed (since stats became the issue, #2 was allowed to lay out in the hot son (was neglected for a time, attention being diverted elsewhere); and 

5) The birds referenced in #3, as originally posted, were called “buzzards.” I meant the real creatures and not what some were previously calling members of the profession that works on their craft in front of the bar. By that I mean attorneys, not my Irish uncle who whittles leprechauns while sitting in a lawn chair in front of O’Malley’s.

[johnsch322]

15 minutes ago, Eagledad said:

That SE is only doing what you are demanding here on the forum. Can you imagine the harm she could have created because of her Zero tolerance position.

More often than not, Zero tolerance allows folks who don't want to deal with individual incidents because they don't have the skills and it scares them. 

Barry

This is not at all what I am demanding. I want a zero tolerance for child sexual abuse. 

[malraux]

I do think it’s reasonable that if we are going to approach this with having council scout executives able to exercise judgement over what is actually problematic instead of strict zero tolerance policies, then having an auditor come behind to be sure the SE is using appropriate judgement is a good thing. 

[ThenNow]

19 minutes ago, HelpfulTracks said:

Then I thought, wait, tying them together has to break some kind of YP or GSS policy. 

Don’t tell me that game is verboten like dodgeball?!

[jcousino]

28 minutes ago, johnsch322 said:

As I don’t view 2 10 year olds having a conversation about sex as Child Sexual Abuse I think the SE is at fault. 

i will disagree with you if any of the  talk was beyond that a normal 10 year old should know.

If they are describing any sex acts that they have seen ,been part of or have knowledge that yes it needs to be reported A 10 year old watching  mon and boyfriend make out is child sexual abuse.

Fr. John

[Eagledad]

5 minutes ago, johnsch322 said:

This is not at all what I am demanding. I want a zero tolerance for child sexual abuse. 

How do you define scout to scout sex abuse?.

Barry

[MikeS72]

51 minutes ago, johnsch322 said:

I think I understand what you are saying but can we agree to having zero tolerance for CSA. Please. 

I would be both amazed and appalled at the same time if there was any regular poster here that did not agree that there should be zero tolerance for any and all CSA.

[johnsch322]

5 minutes ago, Eagledad said:

How do you define scout to scout sex abuse?.

Barry

Any time a scout was exposed to or imposed upon something of a sexual nature that was unwanted by the scouter. That would include being given pornography where it was given for the pleasure of the giver (wanting to see the reaction). I cannot get graphic here.

[johnsch322]

8 minutes ago, MikeS72 said:

I would be both amazed and appalled at the same time if there was any regular poster here that did not agree that there should be zero tolerance for any and all CSA.

I have seen postings where casually it is said you really can not eliminate it.  It feels like the posters are saying we must expect some abuse.

[Eagledad]

Just now, johnsch322 said:

Any time a scout was exposed to or imposed upon something of a sexual nature that was unwanted by the scouter. That would include being given pornography where it was given for the pleasure of the giver (wanting to see the reaction). I cannot get graphic here.

The struggle here is dealing with parents that insist that one scout showing another scout porn is CSA. Those usually end up on the CSA list. Now what?

Barry

[HelpfulTracks]

19 minutes ago, ThenNow said:

Don’t tell me that game is verboten like dodgeball?!

Not to my knowledge, but I will say we have not done a 3 legged race. But before I did, I would look it up. 

[johnsch322]

17 minutes ago, jcousino said:

i will disagree with you if any of the  talk was beyond that a normal 10 year old should know.

If they are describing any sex acts that they have seen ,been part of or have knowledge that yes it needs to be reported A 10 year old watching  mon and boyfriend make out is child sexual abuse.

Fr. John

Agreed that would be not described as 2 10 years olds talking about sex but rather one ten year old telling another 10 year old about how she is abused. a ten year old telling another they saw mom and boyfriend kissing is not.

[johnsch322]

2 minutes ago, Eagledad said:

The struggle here is dealing with parents that insist that one scout showing another scout porn is CSA. Those usually end up on the CSA list. Now what?

Barry

if it wasn't for the pleasure of the one showing then no abuse.

[HelpfulTracks]

5 minutes ago, johnsch322 said:

Any time a scout was exposed to or imposed upon something of a sexual nature that was unwanted by the scouter. That would include being given pornography where it was given for the pleasure of the giver (wanting to see the reaction). I cannot get graphic here.

 I think what some are saying is with youth, one must also consider the parents wants. 

While the youth may not be opposed to receiving pornography, the parent almost certainly would be. The same goes for language and others. So while a youth may be abused by your definition, the parent of said youth may see it differently.

[malraux]

5 minutes ago, johnsch322 said:

I have seen postings where casually it is said you really can not eliminate it.  It feels like the posters are saying we must expect some abuse.

I think there’s a difference between tolerating it vs expecting it. I expect that there will be some, because humans are humans. i would see our goal as preventing the situations most likely to cause issues, having good screening mechanisms to prevent known abusers in, and making sure that everyone is working to detect problems when they are at the lowest intensity possible (which also means the lowest harm possible).