Former Youth Protection Director on the dangers in Scouts BSA

[ThenNow]

29 minutes ago, ThenNow said:

Jeff Anderson, Mr. Johnson’s lawyer

Lest we skip over this simple five word line, there is clearly more to be revealed. I, for one, am most intrigued, even while mostly dead. Is “Mr. Anderson” merely his shield or also his sword. Hmmm....

7 minutes ago, InquisitiveScouter said:

Over the years, I have become more aware of how the BSA "professional" side operates, and have grown more and more uncomfortable with their modus operandi.  Johnson's revelations yesterday only confirmed my interpretations of negative experiences accumulated.

I have no clue how you guys put up with this for years and years and years on end. I know. I know. Love for kids and love of Scouting, but good Lord. 

Edited October 13, 2021 by ThenNow

[CynicalScouter]

By the by, if you want to see just how much in the tank some of the folks in BSA are, checkout the r/BSA subreddit post about the Johnson press conference.

The mods over there are all former or current BSA staff and one in particular is just trashing Johnson. The other posters are doing the same implying Johnson lied, he's doing it for money (?), this is all a plot by Anderson/the lawyers, the BSA YP program is just perfection, etc.

You want to know why nothing changes? Because you have professionals (and many volunteers) convinced BSA is perfect as is and maybe should even revert BACK to the "good old days".

Edited October 13, 2021 by CynicalScouter

[Eagle1993]

2 minutes ago, InquisitiveScouter said:

So, having slept on it...

Does Johnson's presser yesterday affect anyone's thoughts on remaining affiliated with BSA until more of these changes are manifested?

Over the years, I have become more aware of how the BSA "professional" side operates, and have grown more and more uncomfortable with their modus operandi.  Johnson's revelations yesterday only confirmed my interpretations of negative experiences accumulated.

I think my frog may be boiled, and, as we are nearing recharter time, I'm wondering if the thing to do is to decline renewing my BSA membership...

Anyone else struggling with this?

Yes.  My wife told me yesterday she will have a hard time letting my daughter join Scouts BSA.  My daughter dropped out of Cub Scouts due to various conflicts and lack of girls in the Pack, but we always talked about her joining Scouts BSA. 

I also talked with an ASM and as a Troop we may start ignoring the 72 hour rule.  (We already require YPT).  We may require any adult who wants to spend the night with the Troop to register as an adult leader.  

Finally we started having 1 scout per tent during COVID.  That may continue.  

[yknot]

Just now, InquisitiveScouter said:

So, having slept on it...

Does Johnson's presser yesterday affect anyone's thoughts on remaining affiliated with BSA until more of these changes are manifested?

Over the years, I have become more aware of how the BSA "professional" side operates, and have grown more and more uncomfortable with their modus operandi.  Johnson's revelations yesterday only confirmed my interpretations of negative experiences accumulated.

I think my frog may be boiled, and, as we are nearing recharter time, I'm wondering if the thing to do is to decline renewing my BSA membership...

Anyone else struggling with this?

I reached that point earlier than this, maybe a year ago, but found Johnson's comments validating about some of the deep concerns I have developed over the years about National and how it runs the program. In my estimation it has become a self affirming, self congratulatory out of touch cult rather than a functional, modern day nonprofit youth organization. I think there are good people involved. I think there are pockets where the program works well, but those pockets require a lot of alchemy to create and sustain. The program by itself, as administered by the National organization, cannot be templated in any reliably safe or uniform fashion. If you are fair, Johnson's words ring true about many of the concerns that have repeatedly been expressed on this forum. To some degree almost nothing he said should have been a bombshell to any of the jaded folks here other than the fact of his own appearance as a senior executive and the person who was hired to be the man in the white hat for BSA. It sounds like he left after it was shot off his head. 

 

[InquisitiveScouter]

Just now, ThenNow said:

Lest we skip over this simple five word line, there is clearly more to be revealed. I, for one, am most intrigued, even while mostly dead.

I have no clue how you guys put up with this for years and years and years on end. I know. I know. Love for kids and love of Scouting, but good Lord. 

Hoping (against hope) and working for change at our level...

For example, at the local unit level (the only place I have most influence), we have implemented more stringent YPT measures.

#1, ANY adult who wants to camp with us has to have background checks done. 

#2, a personal promise from me to every adult on an outing that, if they harm one of the kids under my care, I will risk prison for murder or attempted murder.

#3, encouraging as many registered adults as possible to attend, not only to better supervise the younger Scouts, but to be able to provide the older ones the opportunity to go off on their own adventure, and to better keep an eye on each other (adult-wise).

#4 Ensuring the COR knows and interviews each and every registered adult, and knows who is going on the outings  (the COR lives two blocks from me, and we speak almost daily)

#5 Regular discussions at committee meetings about child abuse, signs and symptoms, and whether we are seeing any of these in any of our Scouts...(Part of my SM "State of the Troop" address)

#6 Personally asking parents, with Scout Handbook and materials in hand, whether they have reviewed the Youth Protection exercises there with their Scout.

etc, etc, etc

Vigilance, friends, is the watchword.

Long ago I mentally separated BSA from Scouting.  I do not equate the two anymore.  The mindset is, we have our own scouting program, and use the BSA materials as a baseline for our program, and build from there...

[Eagle94-A1]

18 minutes ago, InquisitiveScouter said:

Anyone else struggling with this?

At the moment, NO I am not struggling with it. Ticked off and want heads to roll, YES, but not struggling with my decision to continue on.

NOW,  I will be withdrawing from all district committees, activities, etc and focusing on my Scouts. My Scouts need me, now more than ever. We are an extremely small troop, with no feeder pack. While we are not struggling now, we will in the future as our Scouts age out. Our committee and ASM corps are the bare minimums. In fact two ASMs became  MCs to get the required numbers. And we will lose Scouters as their Scouts age out. Again my focus is my Scouts.  

As far as council as the council goes, my district has been neglected for so long many could care less about the council. When the word gets out on the camps to be sold, I have been told several units will have absolutely nothing to do with the council ever again: no attendance at district or council events, no FOS, no sales, no going to the remaining council camps, nothing. Just use them to process the charter and Eagle Applications. They will even go tot out of council stores to buy awards.

 

12 minutes ago, ThenNow said:

...while mostly dead.

 It just so happens that your friend here is only MOSTLY dead. There's a big difference between mostly dead and all dead. Mostly dead is slightly alive.   🤣

Edited October 13, 2021 by Eagle94-A1

[InquisitiveScouter]

6 minutes ago, yknot said:

those pockets require a lot of alchemy to create and sustain.

Love this... would give it two hearts if I could...spot on!

[ThenNow]

1 minute ago, Eagle94-A1 said:

 It just so happens that your friend here is only MOSTLY dead. There's a big difference between mostly dead and all dead. Mostly dead is slightly alive. 

Bam. Thank you, Miracle Max! You’re the man. You win a nice MLT on the house!

[RememberSchiff]

20 hours ago, RememberSchiff said:

Hopefully, Mr. Johnson brings printouts of that data just as Facebook whistleblower Frances Haugen did.

Another $0.02,

 

17 minutes ago, CynicalScouter said:

By the by, if you want to see just how much in the tank some of the folks in BSA are, checkout the r/BSA subreddit post about the Johnson press conference.

The mods over there are all former or current BSA staff and one in particular is just trashing Johnson. The other posters are doing the same implying Johnson lied, he's doing it for money (?), this is all a plot by Anderson/the lawyers, the BSA YP program is just perfection, etc.

You want to know why nothing changes? Because you have professionals (and many volunteers) convinced BSA is perfect as is and maybe should even revert BACK to the "good old days".

IMHO nothing changed yesterday. We got Mr. Johnson's side of why he left, the rest we knew or strongly suspected.

I want hard evidence of that data.  At the very,very least, a release of names and contact information of the NEC and National Executive Board (as of when he left would give us a start). 

I am not writing Congress. I'm sticking with our own circus, I'm first writing members of the NEB.

Another $0.02,

[ThenNow]

12 minutes ago, RememberSchiff said:

I want hard evidence of that data.  At the very,very least, a release of names and contact information of the NEC and National Executive Board (as of when he left would give us a start). 

Based on how things were couched in that presser, nothing is coming out until everyone is under oath in one form or another. He has an attorney. They have oodles of attorneys. No blanks being filled in without them being read in and bills being rung up.

[Sentinel947]

17 hours ago, vol_scouter said:

QUIT ATTRIBUTING WORDS TO ME THAT I DID NOT SAY!!!

He did a fine job with Youth Protection and was a champion.  In my discussions with him, he did not understand that the experiences in the Scouts BSA program were to build character so he had difficulty in understanding what elements needed to be retained with a new way to protect youth rather than cutting it.  It is not an excuse.  I was the one advocating external academic researchers to continuously study the program.  I agree with outside observers and did not say otherwise.  You do not have the only valid viewpoint.

That's his MO. He doesn't fully read other people's comments, and jumps to the absolute worst interpretation of what other people write. It truly is bullying behavior, and he does it to darn near everybody on this forum. It's a shame, because otherwise CynicalScouter makes great contributions to this forum, particularly around the bankruptcy. 
 

17 hours ago, CynicalScouter said:

Oh, and he wasn't fired. It was layoffs due to budget cuts.

Let that sink in a second.

So, to be clear, that REALLY does seem to indicate he NEVER got replaced as YP director.

Further support for your position that the BSA does not take YPT seriously. They LAID OFF the director of YPT, during a bankruptcy caused by inability to protect Youth, and then never backfilled the job. That's absolute negligence. It would be better if he was terminated for some sort of cause. 

[Sentinel947]

1 hour ago, InquisitiveScouter said:

So, having slept on it...

Does Johnson's presser yesterday affect anyone's thoughts on remaining affiliated with BSA until more of these changes are manifested?

Over the years, I have become more aware of how the BSA "professional" side operates, and have grown more and more uncomfortable with their modus operandi.  Johnson's revelations yesterday only confirmed my interpretations of negative experiences accumulated.

I think my frog may be boiled, and, as we are nearing recharter time, I'm wondering if the thing to do is to decline renewing my BSA membership...

Anyone else struggling with this?

Yes. I am. I have commitments I've made to people locally for various things, but my natural instinct is to say "Screw this, I'm done with the BSA." 

[Eagle1993]

1 hour ago, RememberSchiff said:

We got Mr. Johnson's side of why he left, the rest we knew or strongly suspected.

I want hard evidence of that data.  At the very,very least, a release of names and contact information of the NEC and National Executive Board (as of when he left would give us a start). 

I completely agree.  Many of us have added our own safety requirements on top of BSA's in terms of youth protection ... so some of what he said was not surprising.

The two areas I was surprised was that 50% of the abuse are done by youth and known abusers are in the BSA. 

I knew that was a growing concern, but if someone were to ask me a week ago, I would have guessed 10%.  Honestly, that was the point that scared my wife.  She knows the rigor we apply YPT to other adults ... but knowing half the assaults' are done by kids was a bit of a wake up call.  

The other is known abusers are in the BSA.  That one needs specifics.  I'm struggling to accept that one.  I hope it isn't true.

[HelpfulTracks]

2 hours ago, InquisitiveScouter said:

So, having slept on it...

Does Johnson's presser yesterday affect anyone's thoughts on remaining affiliated with BSA until more of these changes are manifested?

Over the years, I have become more aware of how the BSA "professional" side operates, and have grown more and more uncomfortable with their modus operandi.  Johnson's revelations yesterday only confirmed my interpretations of negative experiences accumulated.

I think my frog may be boiled, and, as we are nearing recharter time, I'm wondering if the thing to do is to decline renewing my BSA membership...

Anyone else struggling with this?

No, if anything, I have doubled down. 

BSA has some serious issues and deficiencies. But they also have a great mission and a solid program. 

I don't think a start up organization to replace BSA could be half of what we have now. 

So, I am rolling up my sleeves for the hard work of rooting out the evil and preserving the program that achieves its mission, aims, methods, oath and law. 

I think our youth need and deserve a program that lives up to the standards that were set forth back in 1910

[ThenNow]

2 hours ago, RememberSchiff said:

IMHO nothing changed yesterday. We got Mr. Johnson's side of why he left, the rest we knew or strongly suspected.

Who be “we”? You got a mouse in yer pocket? (Nod to my Gramps.) But seriously folks, do you mean Scouters, the general public, this forum, survivors, the bankruptcy mediation parties, Scouts and Scouting parents or…? “Help, Mr. Wizard! Stop this crazy thing…!!”