YPT Changes in TCC Proposal

[HelpfulTracks]

1 minute ago, CynicalScouter said:

National won’t lift a finger. Several camps and OA events still do this. No one says boo.

I work with several national staff and national OA on a regular basis, I can guarantee they would want to know and it would cause an immediate reaction, particularly given the current headlines regarding BSA. 

I was on a 3 hour call last night with several national OA leaders, inductions and ceremonies were all we talked about. This type behavior would be hammered. Again, if it is being done then it needs to be spotlighted.

Here is the thing, I visit Lodges frequently, I speak with leaders around the country. I am not seeing or heading of anything like this. So, if it is happening, please bring it forward. As I said, I will take it up the chain myself and I can promise people will take action. 

[yknot]

1 hour ago, HelpfulTracks said:

 

I agree, this is violation of several policies. Please provide those locations and dates and I will gladly take it to national myself. 

Search on Google and/or Facebook for Mic O Say or Scouts Native American appropriation and you'll find plenty of photos that show youth barechested in loincloths and they are current. I don't know how it persists in the present environment but it is hard to argue that BSA is the leader in youth protection with photos like those extant. 

[CynicalScouter]

13 minutes ago, yknot said:

Scouts Native American appropriation and you'll find plenty of photos that show youth barechested in loincloths and they are current.

Exactly. I have seen it too. Personally called the 800 scouts number.

National doesn’t care and will not lift a finger.

My council, thanks heavens, won’t put up with this garbage.

Edited October 1, 2021 by CynicalScouter

[CynicalScouter]

2 hours ago, HelpfulTracks said:

I work with several national staff and national OA on a regular basis, I can guarantee they would want to know

Go Google and FB search the photos that are dated this summer. I would post but the mods would disapprove and frankly it comes close to child pornography.

I will be very, very happy when an external monitor comes into BSA and starts to clean house. Perhaps some people losing jobs and positions will get the message through.

Nothing else does or will.

I want to also see council by council reports of the number of YP violations reported and results. BSA needs to stop hiding.

[David CO]

36 minutes ago, CynicalScouter said:

National doesn’t care and will not lift a finger.

I don't know why.  They've always been willing to lift a finger to me.  

[PeterHopkins]

9 hours ago, Eagle1993 said:

I really think there could be a big opportunity for a centralized youth volunteer clearing house.

This a a good opportunity for someone to start a niche business. I wonder what the downside would be if they get it wrong. Suppose they give the nod to an individual who later becomes an abuser?

[PeterHopkins]

6 hours ago, David CO said:

BSA would have a hard time telling girls to dress more modestly, knowing that they would get an immediate outcry about body shaming.

I've been to BSA camps that require females wear one-piece swimsuits.

[HelpfulTracks]

3 hours ago, yknot said:

Search on Google and/or Facebook for Mic O Say or Scouts Native American appropriation and you'll find plenty of photos that show youth barechested in loincloths and they are current.

 

3 hours ago, CynicalScouter said:

Exactly. I have seen it too. Personally called the 800 scouts number.

National doesn’t care and will not lift a finger.

My council, thanks heavens, won’t put up with this garbage.

 

3 hours ago, CynicalScouter said:

Go Google and FB search the photos that are dated this summer. I would post but the mods would disapprove and frankly it comes close to child pornography.

I will be very, very happy when an external monitor comes into BSA and starts to clean house. Perhaps some people losing jobs and positions will get the message through.

Nothing else does or will.

I want to also see council by council reports of the number of YP violations reported and results. BSA needs to stop hiding.

Normally when someone makes a claim with no references and tells me to go look it up, I ignore it. 

But, this is a serious subject so I did as you requested.

As for Mic-O-Say, it is not associated with the OA or BSA. what they do I am not aware, nor how they manage being involved even tangentially to BSA camps. 

As for photos, I found nothing like you described. The closest were a couple of photos from 2014 where the scouts had loin cloths over shorts. I even searched Mic-O-Say's FB page and Googled them. And just in case I was missing something I turned off safe search in my browser. I have failed to locate the types of photos you are describing. 

If you are concerned about posting the links to these images publicly, please feel free to message the links to me privately. You can do so through my profile page on this site. 

I hope you take me up on the offer as what you are describing is something the OA takes seriously. 

[David CO]

1 hour ago, HelpfulTracks said:

As for photos, I found nothing like you described. The closest were a couple of photos from 2014 where the scouts had loin cloths over shorts. I even searched Mic-O-Say's FB page and Googled them. And just in case I was missing something I turned off safe search in my browser. I have failed to locate the types of photos you are describing. 

I agree.  I looked at the web site.  Yes, there was cultural appropriation.  But I didn't see anything that came close to pornography.  There was nothing more revealing than the sort of things I see every fall weekend in the stands of a football game.   

 

[qwazse]

16 hours ago, yknot said:

I'm not talking about swimwear, I am talking about camp ceremonies, and I am talking present day.

As long as girls can dress like an authentic young Pocahontas at Jamestown …

[yknot]

13 hours ago, HelpfulTracks said:

As for Mic-O-Say, it is not associated with the OA or BSA. what they do I am not aware, nor how they manage being involved even tangentially to BSA camps. 

It is clearly associated with BSA. I'm not sure why you are not seeing the connection:

https://www.hoac-bsa.org/mic-o-say

 

13 hours ago, HelpfulTracks said:

As for photos, I found nothing like you described. The closest were a couple of photos from 2014 where the scouts had loin cloths over shorts. I even searched Mic-O-Say's FB page and Googled them. And just in case I was missing something I turned off safe search in my browser. I have failed to locate the types of photos you are describing. 

Pick through here. You'll find a lot.  

https://indiancountrytoday.com/news/research-compiled-in-the-boy-scout-series-in-indian-country-today

However, if you think shirtless youth wearing loincloths, even over shorts, in the company of adult men in camp ceremonies in the woods for no reason is not inappropriate from a youth protection standpoint, then that's the explanation for why this kind of thing persists. 

 

13 hours ago, HelpfulTracks said:

I hope you take me up on the offer as what you are describing is something the OA takes seriously. 

That's good news. OA would be smart to take this seriously. It just takes one viral social media post to launch yet another high profile PR debacle.

 

[CynicalScouter]

10 minutes ago, yknot said:

Pick through here. You'll find a lot.  

https://indiancountrytoday.com/news/research-compiled-in-the-boy-scout-series-in-indian-country-today

However, if you think shirtless youth wearing loincloths, even over shorts, in the company of adult men in camp ceremonies in the woods for no reason is not inappropriate from a youth protection standpoint, then that's the explanation for why this kind of thing persists. 

This times 10,000

Expect him to turn a blind eye just like everyone else at national does.

again I called the 800 number and reported  it and absolutely nothing happened.

 

[David CO]

18 minutes ago, yknot said:

So you have your marching band members or cheer sections strip down to their skivvies and participate in chanting ceremonies for onlooking adults? And no one thinks your school is maybe a little bit weird?

Please don't put words into my mouth.  I never said the band or cheer squads stripped down to their skivvies.  I never said anyone stripped down to their skivvies (underwear).  

 

[David CO]

52 minutes ago, yknot said:

for onlooking adults? 

All of our activities are supervised by adults, so that's a given. 

 

Edited October 2, 2021 by David CO

[gpurlee]

OK, I hid a couple of comments that I felt were a bit too descriptive for an open Scouting forum.  While they may be historically accurate, they felt a bit uncomfortable for me. I have asked the other moderators to review my action just to make sure I am not being a prude.  I am sensitive to the fact that we have readers of all ages and I would rather err on the side of being a "safe" site for readers of all ages. Which is really difficult given the nature of the topics that we deal with.

Edited October 3, 2021 by gpurlee