YPT Changes in TCC Proposal

[CynicalScouter]

Just now, vol_scouter said:

But as you said, the composition and activities of the committee will be court appointed

NOT under the BSA plan. The BSA plan called for victims to be on the committee and appointed by the TCC and Coalition but does NOT say how many. I would expect them if BSA has its way to be a very small minority. It also says the outside evaluator is appointed by the BSA after “consulting” with the committee

I am referring to what I expect will be in the TCC plan: a victim-driven committee appointing an independent auditor with real power to ORDER BSA to comply (right now the “Evaluating Entity” only recommends and suggests)

[MYCVAStory]

BOOM:  https://www.andersonadvocates.com/former-10-year-boy-scout-youth-protection-director-blows-whistle/

At a press conference, the 10-year former Youth Protection Director for Scouts BSA (formerly the Boy Scouts of America) will speak out about the dangers that Scouts BSA pose to children right now. He will also:

• Present an open letter, given to members of Congress, urging them to begin investigations and hearings immediately into the dangers that exist and the cover-up of abuse
• Reveal BSA policies that allow predators access to children today
• Expose how current Scouts BSA leadership and business model foster danger, secrecy, abuse and cover-up
• Disclose details on former detective refusing to sign NDA, non-disparagement agreement
• Demand full disclosure of hidden documents and identities of all predators, past and present
• Demand release of internal expert analysis that identifies known perils within BSA
• Demand full disclosure of the perversion files kept secret

[MYCVAStory]

https://www.scoutingnewsroom.org/press-releases/boy-scouts-of-america-appoints-michael-johnson-as-youth-protection-director/

[Muttsy]

There is a LOT of talk on this forum about YP. I’d like the most cynical yet knowledgeable on this forum to outline in summary measures that could make scouting meaningfully safe? Isn’t it inherently risky given it’s demonstrated flaws? What should the reforms include?

[Eagledad]

13 minutes ago, Muttsy said:

There is a LOT of talk on this forum about YP. I’d like the most cynical yet knowledgeable on this forum to outline in summary measures that could make scouting meaningfully safe? Isn’t it inherently risky given it’s demonstrated flaws? What should the reforms include?

I don’t believe scouting is risky. I believe scouting is meaningfully save. So, maybe the discussion should start there.

Barry 

[Eagle1970]

3 minutes ago, Eagledad said:

I don’t believe scouting is risky. I believe scouting is meaningfully save. So, maybe the discussion should start there.

Barry 

Perhaps safer then when the BSA employee was abusing us back in the 70's.  I would hope so.  But it is not meaningfully safe to put boys in isolated situations with men.  So maybe we should start there.  No one on one in non-public settings.  Ever.  Period.

[vol_scouter]

6 minutes ago, Eagle1970 said:

Perhaps safer then when the BSA employee was abusing us back in the 70's.  I would hope so.  But it is not meaningfully safe to put boys in isolated situations with men.  So maybe we should start there.  No one on one in non-public settings.  Ever.  Period.

That has been the policy for many years now.  No one on one contact between an adult and a youth ever.  It extends to phone calls, text messages, and emails as well where ideally a parent is included or at least another volunteer is copied on the communication or is present on the phone call.  

A Scoutmaster conference is to be held in a corner of a room with other Scouts and Scouters around, so a youth who is uncomfortable may signal to others or a volunteer can investigate a youth who looks concerned.

The best thing that happened with enforcing the policies was empowering the volunteers to know what should happen when policies are violated and how to report such activities.  

The best way to improve the concerns about adult on youth abuse is to continue to educate all volunteers and parents while punishing those who violate policies.  Youth on youth is more difficult and requires more typing than the time that I have right now.

Finally, regular thorough reporting to the council SE and EB should become a part of the program.

[Eagledad]

33 minutes ago, Eagle1970 said:

Perhaps safer then when the BSA employee was abusing us back in the 70's.  I would hope so.  But it is not meaningfully safe to put boys in isolated situations with men.  So maybe we should start there.  No one on one in non-public settings.  Ever.  Period.

Don’t we already have this?

Barry

Edited January 26, 2022 by Eagledad

[ThenNow]

1 hour ago, Muttsy said:

There is a LOT of talk on this forum about YP. I’d like the most cynical yet knowledgeable on this forum to outline in summary measures that could make scouting meaningfully safe? Isn’t it inherently risky given it’s demonstrated flaws? What should the reforms include?

I am certain a thread was started to address YP as a standalone topic. It launched following the announcement of a Strategic Working Group by BSA and certain of the Coalition’s survivor clients. I would love to engage this topic, but don’t want to get ponged, deleted or painted with another Scarlet letter. Call me when it shifts to the other locale. Danke sehr.  

[Muttsy]

Fair enough TN but I DO think this discussion belongs here because I'm not asking about YP generally. I'm asking about what is needed to be put in this Plan in black letter language that would actually make a meaningful difference.  We are way past "trust us."

[malraux]

2 minutes ago, Muttsy said:

Fair enough TN but I DO think this discussion belongs here because I'm not asking about YP generally. I'm asking about what is needed to be put in this Plan in black letter language that would actually make a meaningful difference.  We are way past "trust us."

While I'm not sure of any specifics rules that would make a difference, I do think that having an independent auditor to give oversight on YP should be considered seriously.

[InquisitiveScouter]

Youth Protection policies do not protect youth.  People who follow YP policies are the ones who protect youth.

Are the existing YP policies sufficient, IF FOLLOWED?  Yes, I believe so.

The real issue here is culture, enforcement, transparent reporting, and a lack of swift, severe public consequences.

1.  Culture.  There is still a mindset in our society (less so in Scouting) of "don't say anything", or "don't get involved."  Although, this has changed for the better over the decades.  We must define the YP culture we want, and then figure out ways to change attitudes to match the desired culture.  

2.   Enforcement.  There is a major gap in our enforcement, and it lies with parents.  Most parents don't or won't take YP training to learn about the policies in place, and ask or participate in enforcement. (See #1.)  ANy time I am not on an outing, I ask my son about the trip, and gently pry for info on YP measures followed.  I know a lot of parents pencil whip the YP review with their Scout for rank advancement...

3.  Transparent Reporting.  BSA is horrible at this.  When I asked my SE why we don't see more BSA wide statistics on accidents and child abuse, he told me BSA will never report it for fear of liability.  (See #1)  I think, maybe, if they reported actual numbers and case circumstances, parents would say Scouting is not safe, and their death spiral would continue.  Much like the area of council finances, the professionals see that ignorance of the masses is one of their best assets.

4.  Swift Severe Public Consequences.  Bring pack the pillory in the public square, rotten fruit, tar and feathering, whatever you want...  Currently, unless you know where to look and actively go looking (sex offender registry), the issue is pretty much off of everyone's radar.  Anytime there is a case in Scouting, everyone goes quiet, and there is just gossip, rumors, whispering, and, unfortunately, inflated lies.  Few people know what happened and what part of our policies were violated, and in what circumstances.   A giant black hole...  Someone gets convicted (I believe in due process)? Lay it bare and have discussions at places like University of Scouting, Roundtables, Council Events, Council Newsletters, etc., about why it occurred and where vigilance was lacking...  I believe this can be done in a way which respects the victim(s).  No, I do not want to re-live my trauma, either, so tell me how you'd approach this??

[ThenNow]

1 hour ago, Muttsy said:

Fair enough TN but I DO think this discussion belongs here because I'm not asking about YP generally. I'm asking about what is needed to be put in this Plan in black letter language that would actually make a meaningful difference.  We are way past "trust us."

Brother, I agree it belongs on every thread. I was just giving you (and all) a heads up we were about to experience an unwitting shift in our time/space continuum. 

Edited January 26, 2022 by ThenNow

[skeptic]

1 hour ago, InquisitiveScouter said:

Youth Protection policies do not protect youth.  People who follow YP policies are the ones who protect youth.

Are the existing YP policies sufficient, IF FOLLOWED?  Yes, I believe so.

The real issue here is culture, enforcement, transparent reporting, and a lack of swift, severe public consequences.

1.  Culture.  There is still a mindset in our society (less so in Scouting) of "don't say anything", or "don't get involved."  Although, this has changed for the better over the decades.  We must define the YP culture we want, and then figure out ways to change attitudes to match the desired culture.  

2.   Enforcement.  There is a major gap in our enforcement, and it lies with parents.  Most parents don't or won't take YP training to learn about the policies in place, and ask or participate in enforcement. (See #1.)  ANy time I am not on an outing, I ask my son about the trip, and gently pry for info on YP measures followed.  I know a lot of parents pencil whip the YP review with their Scout for rank advancement...

3.  Transparent Reporting.  BSA is horrible at this.  When I asked my SE why we don't see more BSA wide statistics on accidents and child abuse, he told me BSA will never report it for fear of liability.  (See #1)  I think, maybe, if they reported actual numbers and case circumstances, parents would say Scouting is not safe, and their death spiral would continue.  Much like the area of council finances, the professionals see that ignorance of the masses is one of their best assets.

4.  Swift Severe Public Consequences.  Bring pack the pillory in the public square, rotten fruit, tar and feathering, whatever you want...  Currently, unless you know where to look and actively go looking (sex offender registry), the issue is pretty much off of everyone's radar.  Anytime there is a case in Scouting, everyone goes quiet, and there is just gossip, rumors, whispering, and, unfortunately, inflated lies.  Few people know what happened and what part of our policies were violated, and in what circumstances.   A giant black hole...  Someone gets convicted (I believe in due process)? Lay it bare and have discussions at places like University of Scouting, Roundtables, Council Events, Council Newsletters, etc., about why it occurred and where vigilance was lacking...  I believe this can be done in a way which respects the victim(s).  No, I do not want to re-live my trauma, either, so tell me how you'd approach this??

Truly on point, especially the first few sentences.  I would add, just from my own reading and long time overservations, that just getting parents to review YP in reality would be a huge positive thing.  Still, I am not sure how we get past the still too common "stigma" if there is an incidence, and the family chooses to either not let it go public, or they even choose to not pursue it all.  Add to that, as too oftens still, power of money and politics if the perpetrator has it.  

But, just actually paying attention and religiously following the alread in place rules would keep most predators away, as they would know it was not worth the effort.  

[fred8033]

1 hour ago, InquisitiveScouter said:

3.  Transparent Reporting.  BSA is horrible at this.  When I asked my SE why we don't see more BSA wide statistics on accidents and child abuse, he told me BSA will never report it for fear of liability.  (See #1)  I think, maybe, if they reported actual numbers and case circumstances, parents would say Scouting is not safe, and their death spiral would continue.  Much like the area of council finances, the professionals see that ignorance of the masses is one of their best assets.

This is the one place where I differ.  I'm okay saying BSA must report out.  I just don't think any organization does well reporting ugly statistics on itself.  Like any organization, BSA wants to look good.  Specifics get explained away or defined away or plain old lost.  It's just too tempting.  

With mandatory reporting laws, society has a great opportunity to independently roll-up incident numbers and investigate problem areas.  The question is who should own those numbers?  FBI.  GAO.  HHS.  

I really think it's a bad idea to trust numbers from any organization when those numbers would make the organization look bad. 

Edited January 26, 2022 by fred8033