Skill Awards - lost part of the program?

[Armymutt]

I pulled out my 9th edition of the handbook today to look up the skill award requirements.  I noticed that part of the camping one was to carry your gear 2km in and 2km out.  In the most up-to-date one I have, the 13th edition, there is no requirement to carry your gear for any of the first three ranks.  This surprises me, given the advancements in weight saving gear over the past 35 years.  Any ideas why Scouts aren't required to carry their gear?

[Eagle94-A1]

Probably because most troops car camp. I hate to say it, but BSA has changed requirements to make it easier. If you don't believe me, take a look at the Cub Scout Program. In June 2015, they completely revamped the Cub Scout program. From January to May, the RTs were focusing on the changes. Those packs that were prepared had no major problems with the changes. The packs that didn't send folks to RTs freaked out, and in December 2016, less than 2 years into the new program, they changed requirements to make things easier due to complaints.

Ditto with Scouting. From  circa June 2016 until some time in  2017, in order to get First Class, you had to go on 6 camp outs, not 4. There were complaints about that, and they changed it back to 4. This really irked middle son because he had to wait for 6 campouts to be done before getting First Class. They changed the rul about 1 month or two after he earned it.

 

[malraux]

6 minutes ago, Eagle94-A1 said:

If you don't believe me, take a look at the Cub Scout Program.

Looking at my mid 80s Cub Scout books, the requirements for rank there has not changed much at all in that time period. The mechanisms for it all has changed, but the underlying work is almost identical.

[DuctTape]

The best part of the skill awards was they were akin to a "mB lite". First do skill awards for earlier ranks, then mBs for higher ranks. The system encouraged the concept of increased challenge and revisiting skills and concepts over time instead of 1-and-done. Were there issues? Of course, but IMO it was better than the current system which encourages 1-and-done instead of growth.

[Armymutt]

1 hour ago, DuctTape said:

The best part of the skill awards was they were akin to a "mB lite". First do skill awards for earlier ranks, then mBs for higher ranks. The system encouraged the concept of increased challenge and revisiting skills and concepts over time instead of 1-and-done. Were there issues? Of course, but IMO it was better than the current system which encourages 1-and-done instead of growth.

That's exactly the problem.  The skill awards introduced the concepts for a large number of required merit badges.  The repetitive nature helps kids to learn.

[skeptic]

6 minutes ago, Armymutt said:

That's exactly the problem.  The skill awards introduced the concepts for a large number of required merit badges.  The repetitive nature helps kids to learn.

Skill awards simply allowed the scout to earn bling for various types of skill, getting one for first aid meant completing all the first aid requirements for the first three ranks.  If a scout earned all the skill awards, he pretty much also learned all the ranks through first class, with a few additional things added in each level.  Also, the skill award booklets were often very good for covering those various rank parts more easily.  Or at least so I saw it.

 

[DuctTape]

23 minutes ago, skeptic said:

Skill awards simply allowed the scout to earn bling for various types of skill, getting one for first aid meant completing all the first aid requirements for the first three ranks.  If a scout earned all the skill awards, he pretty much also learned all the ranks through first class, with a few additional things added in each level.  Also, the skill award booklets were often very good for covering those various rank parts more easily.  Or at least so I saw it.

 

I disagree. The skill awards each had significantly more expectations than just what is in the rank requirements. Certainly the "meat" is the same. But as I mentioned earlier they (almost) forced the scouts to repeat the requirements that would be done in mBs, while now they just start the mB, do the requirement once and count it for both rank and mB. 

[skeptic]

20 minutes ago, DuctTape said:

I disagree. The skill awards each had significantly more expectations than just what is in the rank requirements. Certainly the "meat" is the same. But as I mentioned earlier they (almost) forced the scouts to repeat the requirements that would be done in mBs, while now they just start the mB, do the requirement once and count it for both rank and mB. 

So, what is to disagree?  IF they earned the skill award, then they pretty much did all the rank requirements as well. I believe that is what I noted.  Of course, in the case of most merit badges, they still had more things to do besides the items in the skill awards.  Now, for First Aid for example, they must have completed all the rank rquirement first aid items as a prerequite.  That is the first requirement.  

[DuctTape]

10 hours ago, skeptic said:

So, what is to disagree?  IF they earned the skill award, then they pretty much did all the rank requirements as well. I believe that is what I noted.  Of course, in the case of most merit badges, they still had more things to do besides the items in the skill awards.  Now, for First Aid for example, they must have completed all the rank rquirement first aid items as a prerequite.  That is the first requirement.  

I apologize, I think I read your post too quickly and honed in on the "it's just bling" theme.

[Double Eagle]

And when I earned skill awards, Scouts were allowed to teach and sign off on them.  Didn't need a MB Counselor to do it.  Skill awards were part of a troop meeting for those under 1st Class.  Worked great for me and looking back, the Scout taught SA allowed new scouts to interact and build a rapport with the higher ranking scouts.  win-win.

[qwazse]

And, BSA could exact some coin for what scouts could learn by routinely camping with a troop.

I don’t miss them.

[Oldscout448]

I found that skill awards made it a lot easier to locate scouts in the dark. You just listened for the clanking noise.

[MattR]

20 hours ago, Armymutt said:

Any ideas why Scouts aren't required to carry their gear?

Maybe gear is like computer storage. The more you have the more you need. As a scout, we didn't have patrol boxes or trailers. We divided up what we needed for a campout, everyone took their share.  We could carry our gear, even though it often wasn't far.

I tried going back to that model when I was SM but it was a battle. "We have a big trailer and lots of Suburbans, why make the scouts work hard? Bring everything!"

[Eagle1993]

20 hours ago, Eagle94-A1 said:

Probably because most troops car camp.

I think this cannot be understated.  We car camp, but we also have at least two backpacking camping trips a year and have a high adventure camping trip each year.  Most of our scouts don't participate in these.  We also get more adult support on car camping trips than backpacking.

Actually, I think you can become Eagle Scout without a single backpacking camping outing.  I may be wrong, but I don't think there is a single requirement to carry camping gear for any amount of distance.

[Eagle94-A1]

10 minutes ago, Eagle1993 said:

Actually, I think you can become Eagle Scout without a single backpacking camping outing.  I may be wrong, but I don't think there is a single requirement to carry camping gear for any amount of distance.

TECHNICALLY you need to do trail meals requiring no refrigeration for Cooking MB.  

"6d While on a trail hike or backpacking trip, prepare and serve two meals and a snack from the menu planned for this requirement. At least one of those meals must be cooked over a fire, or an approved trail stove (with proper supervision).**"

 

How folks are earning it at summer camp, I wonder.