Chapter 11 Announced - Part 6 - Plan 5.0/TCC Plan TBD

[Life]

1 hour ago, ThenNow said:

To comment briefly, only on the public perception and not the motive, many were confused by this. It was instrumental in securing them a position at the mediation table, imnsho. For many month the media represented them to be, effectively, the replacement entity to the TCC. I, and others, contacted them to object loudly and often. The media have since made it clear they are not, in part by doing a much better job covering what the TCC is saying and doing. For a good stretch there, I was pretty upset about it.

Thanks for speaking on this. My perception as this was taking place was that this “coalition “ was muscling their way into the bankruptcy and it left me confused and not feeling right.  It continues to baffle and leave me feeling un easy. Never really made sense. If the TCC was a panel made up of survivors why would we need another panel of opposing survivors? Then it became clear as to what it actually is. It still leaves me baffled as to why we have opposing sides. One side being survivors with their feet in the fire, the other being a group of attorneys. How is this not abundantly clear to the judge? 
 

im not trying to lawyer bash on this, just seeing a contrast that is odd.. 

[ThenNow]

1 hour ago, Life said:

The Coalition of attorneys representing abused scouts is now pushing media coverage of their getting 1 (one) survivor on the executive board. 

Four questions: 

1) Who selects this person?

2) On what basis?

2) Is he already known? (Maybe the fella who spoke on the Coalition Informercial last week?)

4) Do we know if this person is prepared to give $1M annually? If so, I will believe he might have a voice that stands a chance of being heard and making an impact. If not, not so much. 

Edited October 18, 2021 by ThenNow

[1980Scouter]

4 hours ago, MYCVAStory said:

At the last Town Hall meeting the comment was made that the focus is on the current plan since THAT is what's being voted on.  If I were the TCC I'd let that mess of a plan take a bit of a beating for a while before releasing all or parts of their plan.  Stay down in the fox hole until the time is right to attack!  That said, maybe some will be discussed Thiursday at the next Town Hall?

I would think it better to release a planner sooner before people start voting showing that compensation could be much improved in the TCC plan. 

That will show it is possible for LC's to contribute significantly more, as well as other sources too.

 

[Muttsy]

57 minutes ago, 1980Scouter said:

would think it better to release a planner sooner before people start voting showing that compensation could be much improved in the TCC plan. 

That will show it is possible for LC's to contribute significantly more, as well as other sources too.

 

As much as I agree with you 1980S, it’s a tough call. I desperately want to see it, too. I also see the pros and cons of holding off. The BSA Plan is so awful it probably sit center stage for another month. As soon as the TCC rolls out it’s plan, the BSA and Coalition will deflect attention from its Plan thingy. 
 

The TCC has strongly hinted what’s in their Plan. It could throw out a few more breadcrumbs for us hens but I’ll respect their best judgement. Job #1 now is killing this turkey. Apologies to real gobblers getting fattened up as we speak. 
 

Oh, and one more thing—I miss Cynical and want him restored by the Mod thought police now!

[MYCVAStory]

4 hours ago, Life said:

My perception as this was taking place was that this “coalition “ was muscling their way into the bankruptcy and it left me confused and not feeling right.  It continues to baffle and leave me feeling un easy. Never really made sense. If the TCC was a panel made up of survivors why would we need another panel of opposing survivors? Then it became clear as to what it actually is. It still leaves me baffled as to why we have opposing sides. One side being survivors with their feet in the fire, the other being a group of attorneys. How is this not abundantly clear to the judge? 

Well, just about any group can petition to be a "mediation party" so their inclusion was SOP.  Unfortunately 82,500 survivors are going to be the example of how mass tort bankruptcy has become a cottage industry for the legal and financial professions.  I think the group that was screaming loudest regarding their muscling in and power was the Coalition.  The judge has shown that she isn't buying it by already saying their fees would be thrown out of the current plan and she also cast doubt on a successful payment after plan approval unless the plan has widespread acceptance,  Consider as well that in bankruptcy the old saying is "You need a friend" and the BSA found one in the Coalition since it was willing to accept the lowball Hartford deal AND little youth protection change AND a trustee that is hand picked by the coalition (who also control trust governance based upon its membership).   The TCC has continued to represent Survivors and is clawing for every vote and educate Survivors.  If the plan goes down it's a new ballgame and the TCC can say "You all had your shot at this....now it's time to cooperate."  If the BSA wants to get out of Bankruptcy it'll listen.  Bonus crystal-balling...  A TCC plan will NEVER go out for a vote,  The judge won't let it drag on that long.  She'll send it to mediation with a message between 12/21 and a month later and if the parties can't agree she'll DISMISS the bankruptcy and tell the BSA "You had your shot at this voluntarily and couldn't pull it off.  Lawsuit injunctions are over.  Best of luck."  And then....well...if the BSA really is the "melting ice cube" it said would melt last August, then this November, well.......

[Life]

9 minutes ago, MYCVAStory said:

Well, just about any group can petition to be a "mediation party" so their inclusion was SOP.  Unfortunately 82,500 survivors are going to be the example of how mass tort bankruptcy has become a cottage industry for the legal and financial professions.  I think the group that was screaming loudest regarding their muscling in and power was the Coalition.  The judge has shown that she isn't buying it by already saying their fees would be thrown out of the current plan and she also cast doubt on a successful payment after plan approval unless the plan has widespread acceptance,  Consider as well that in bankruptcy the old saying is "You need a friend" and the BSA found one in the Coalition since it was willing to accept the lowball Hartford deal AND little youth protection change AND a trustee that is hand picked by the coalition (who also control trust governance based upon its membership).   The TCC has continued to represent Survivors and is clawing for every vote and educate Survivors.  If the plan goes down it's a new ballgame and the TCC can say "You all had your shot at this....now it's time to cooperate."  If the BSA wants to get out of Bankruptcy it'll listen.  Bonus crystal-balling...  A TCC plan will NEVER go out for a vote,  The judge won't let it drag on that long.  She'll send it to mediation with a message between 12/21 and a month later and if the parties can't agree she'll DISMISS the bankruptcy and tell the BSA "You had your shot at this voluntarily and couldn't pull it off.  Lawsuit injunctions are over.  Best of luck."  And then....well...if the BSA really is the "melting ice cube" it said would melt last August, then this November, well.......

Thank you for this explanation. At current I feel better about it. My attorneys have suggested I vote NO and have been of that mindset for a while now. 
thanks again. 

[MYCVAStory]

13 minutes ago, Life said:

Thank you for this explanation. At current I feel better about it. My attorneys have suggested I vote NO and have been of that mindset for a while now. 
thanks again. 

I'm optimistic that this horrible settlement will go down in flames.  But, as someone connected to this said to me the other day, "we all live in our own echo chambers."  The folks on this forum are very well informed and I've been so impressed how open-minded all sides have been.  My concern though is that a lot of Survivors are in the dark and now about to get some bad advice.  I understand how some want this over with, I really do.  But every Survivor needs to consider the "morning after."  This is our ONE shot and most have waited decades.  If it fails I hope the TCC can make good on its promise to be the side of "better."  If it's accepted I hope Survivors will get some sense of resolution but I truly believe this plan will make many, from those in bad States to ESPECIALLY those in good States feel like they have become victims again.  Hey let me end on an optimistic note.  I'd like to officially request that the moderators create a forum on 12/15 for everyone to make their voting predictions so we can see whose prognostication skills are best!

[johnsch322]

1 hour ago, MYCVAStory said:

I understand how some want this over with, I really do. 

It will be interesting to see how many of the yes votes also take the quick $3500.  If a large proportion of yes's take the $3500 I think their votes will be set aside.

[fred8033]

1 hour ago, MYCVAStory said:

....  She'll send it to mediation with a message between 12/21 and a month later and if the parties can't agree she'll DISMISS the bankruptcy and tell the BSA "You had your shot at this voluntarily and couldn't pull it off.  Lawsuit injunctions are over.  Best of luck."  And then....well...if the BSA really is the "melting ice cube" it said would melt last August, then this November, well.......  

Does anyone doubt this is a real bankruptcy?  It will exit chapter 11 (reorg) or chapter 7 (liquidation).  The pending legal fees alone are massive before even considering settlements and judgements.  

I truly believe a failed chapter 11 bankruptcy means liquidation.  Liquidation means less for most survivors because of debt priorty.  "Some" in open states may get more, but most just won.t  Plus, lawsuits will restart and continue for years and be extremely expensive for all parties.  

It seems the best exit is a BSA only chapter 11 and soon.  It reserves the most cash for victims; preserves the organization and allows the next set of legal cases to start (cases against insurance, LCs, COs, etc). 

I'd prefer the current plan as it has pain for everyone and people can move on.  BUT, I doubt it's future for many reasons.   If the current plan is adopted, great.  The sooner we can move past legal cases the better. 

I just fear 2020s will be the years of continued lawsuits.  

Edited October 19, 2021 by fred8033

[fred8033]

1 hour ago, MYCVAStory said:

If it fails I hope the TCC can make good on its promise to be the side of "better."  

Agreed. 

I really don't think there is a better side for most victims though.  Some yes.  Most no. 

[johnsch322]

51 minutes ago, fred8033 said:

Agreed. 

I really don't think there is a better side for most victims though.  Some yes.  Most no. 

It can not be any worse than what is on the table now.

[PeterHopkins]

13 hours ago, HelpfulTracks said:

Kosnoff may be the best lawyer in the history of lawyers and is worth every penny, but I find it more than a little disingenuous to say other lawyers are getting too much when he is getting basically the same, perhaps even more. 

I'm not a fan of Kosnoff because of his public behavior. That being said, my takeaway from his letter is that the large pool of money this plan would make available is enough to satisfy the other attorneys, and he believes they will suggest their clients vote to approve the plan based primarily on that and the expected timing of receiving it. His letter makes it clear that he doesn't believe this is the best his clients can expect and that the other attorneys should not be believing that either, no matter what advice they may give their clients.

While I prefer to see an attorney win battles through briefs and arguments in the courtroom (or arbitration or conference room) and not on Twitter, Kosnoff has my respect for doing what he thinks is best for his clients.

[Eagle1993]

17 hours ago, HelpfulTracks said:

Kosnoff may be the best lawyer in the history of lawyers and is worth every penny, but I find it more than a little disingenuous to say other lawyers are getting too much when he is getting basically the same, perhaps even more. 

This is not true.  The Coalition is asking for $15 - $18M directly from the BSA.  It is in the plan.  The judge is questioning this and will decide at the hearing.   This is on top of the 40% most will charge.   Kosnoff is not in the Coalition and will not get that $15M to $18M even if the judge approved it.  
 

In the plan document, there is a chart that shows the Coalition payment.   As it increases per month, it takes money away from the claimant settlement.   When I have more time I’ll post that.  

 

Edit:

The chart can be found here.  Per the plan, the BSA direct payment to the trust  in terms of cash is really a calculation based on:

• BSA's Unrestricted cash/investments minus
• BSA's withheld cash (you can see they plan to retain more the longer this takes)
• Professional Fees ... these are the fees paid to their lawyers, TCC, FCR, Omni, etc.
• Coalition Fees ... if the judge approves (this is Kosnoff's point)
• Other Fees... JPM exit fee and several other taxes/fees

 

You can see the Coalition Fees would directly take money from the trust.  This is on top of their 40% commission from each of their represented claimants.

https://casedocs.omniagentsolutions.com/cmsvol2/pub_47373/2e1a8c44-7812-46a0-8a93-5aa5621dc7b2_6431.pdf

Edited October 19, 2021 by Eagle1993

[RememberSchiff]

16 hours ago, RememberSchiff said:

Okay let's move away from dislike of lawyers, used car salesmen, etc. and move back on topic.

Thanks

RS

@elitts@Eagle1993@gpurlee@T2Eagle@MattR

 A reminder from the "Mod thought police".

Edited October 19, 2021 by RememberSchiff

[ThenNow]

1 hour ago, RememberSchiff said:

A reminder from the "Mod thought police".

At least you’re only “thought police” and not slouching toward dream police. Cheap Trick would have an infringement suit slapped on you in a NY minute, anyway.