Chapter 11 Announced - Part 6 - Plan 5.0/TCC Plan TBD

[CynicalScouter]

15 minutes ago, ThenNow said:

BOY SCOUTS OF AMERICA
Evaluation of Survivor Claims by Year

Thank you. Now, let's project out what pre-1975 only means for COs.

Just looking at the data as is,

36552 claims "1905" (assumed a typo for 1950) - 1974 = 43% of claims
36,761 claims 1975 - 2020 = 43% of claims
10,494 claims blank year = 12% of claims

Assuming that the "blank" claims are distributed in like manner, it is very, very close to  50% pre- 1975 and 50% post-1975.

The "median" abuse claim (50% of all abuse claims are pre-this-date and 50% are post) probably took place sometime in or around early 1977.

If the bankruptcy covers/discharges 50% of all possible claims and the remaining claims are all for events that took place 46+ years ago (and therefore astronomically hard to prove even if the statute of limitations isn't a factor) the COs are making a bet that of those 36,761 claims so few would actually turn into lawsuits that they'll take their chances in state courts.

 

Edited September 15, 2021 by CynicalScouter

[CynicalScouter]

28 minutes ago, Eagle1993 said:

If BSA only incorporated in 2019 I bet you he is correct (at least in terms of picking Delaware).  BSA knew they were in serious financial trouble for many years.

Yes, but it is a giant leap from "incorporate in DE because of the bankruptcy court" (which OK, I might buy) to "incorporate in DE because of THIS PARTICULAR JUDGE".

I know federal court clerks, I've worked with and for them when they were but state court clerks and before they went over to the dark side, I mean federal side. The assignment of judges uses a literally bingo spinner or other random name puller.

So, for Kosnoff's konspiracy to work, BSA in 2019

1. Looked up the list of bankruptcy judges in 2019. In Delaware, there were 6 and Silverstein was NOT the chief judge.  https://web.archive.org/web/20190116175550/https://www.deb.uscourts.gov/judges-info-0
2. Having access to a crystal ball, they incorporated in Delaware knowing that their 1 in 6 chance to get Silverstein in a random draw in 2020 (two judges were added, so the odds went up to 1-in-8) was going to happen because the DE Bankruptcy Clerk was in on the conspiracy (konspiracy) as well.

Ok then.

 

Edited September 15, 2021 by CynicalScouter

[ThenNow]

25 minutes ago, CynicalScouter said:

If the bankruptcy covers/discharges 50% of all possible claims and the remaining claims are all for events that took place 46+ years ago (and therefore astronomically hard to prove even if the statute of limitations isn't a factor) the COs are making a bet that of those 36,761 claims so few would actually turn into lawsuits that they'll take their chances in state courts.

One will. To quote my beloved and now deceased father-in-law's favorite chef, "I garontee" it. I get 1972, 1973 and 1974 in one batch and 1975-1979 in the other. Yippee. More fun than a barrel full of monkeys. (I loathe monkeys, btw.)

Edited September 15, 2021 by ThenNow

[skeptic]

43 minutes ago, ThenNow said:

I am not the tech or stat guy, but it would be interesting to see the youth membership for the years as well.  From my reading, the peak of membership was the two decades after WWII.  Also, is the date for the claim when it was files, or the year the offense may have occurred?  That can sway the stats I would think.  

Interesting to me that you can see the sharp decline starting in the 90s.  YP, or membership loss, or both.  Also, where does the changes in societal view fit in, as well as the way authorities responded?

 

[CynicalScouter]

Official statement from BSA

TLDR: It is a done deal. We are out of bankruptcy in time for New Years

https://www.bsarestructuring.org/event/bsa-marks-progress-with-chartered-organizations-and-announces-new-agreements-for-1-037-billion-in-contributions-to-trust/

The Boy Scouts of America (BSA) has made substantial progress in its financial restructuring as part of its ongoing efforts to reach a global resolution that will equitably compensate survivors and ensure Scouting’s future by resolving past abuse cases for both the national organization and local councils.

As a result of extensive mediated negotiations, the BSA has reached agreements with The Hartford and The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints (TCJC) that provide for The Hartford’s contribution of $787 million and TCJC contribution of $250 million to the proposed Settlement Trust to compensate survivors. This contribution is in addition to the national organization’s and local councils’ commitments to contribute up to $850 million to the Trust. The Coalition of Abused Scouts for Justice, the Future Claimants’ Representative, the Ad Hoc Committee of Local Councils, and state court counsel representing the vast majority of abuse creditors also were closely involved in negotiating and support these agreements. The BSA thanks all parties involved for their cooperation to reach this critical point in the national organization’s financial restructuring.

The amended Plan also solidifies a path forward to ensure that Chartered Partners are represented in the BSA’s financial restructuring process by formalizing the options for them to participate in a settlement and addressing a number of the specific key concerns raised by certain Chartered Partners in ongoing negotiations. The partnership between the BSA and its many Chartered Partners, including religious and civic organizations, has been critical to delivering the Scouting program to millions of youth in our country for generations.

There is still much to be done to obtain approval from the Court for the BSA’s amended Plan, but these settlements represent a critical step toward a global resolution. With the support of the Coalition of Abused Scouts for Justice, this Plan has the overwhelming support of survivors, and the BSA continues to work with other key groups to ensure its Plan has their support.

The BSA is committed to continuing our mediation efforts with all parties and look forward to sharing additional updates as these discussions progress leading up to the disclosure statement hearing scheduled for September 21. The BSA intends to seek confirmation of the Plan and conclude its financial restructuring around the end of this year.

 

Edited September 15, 2021 by CynicalScouter

[ThenNow]

45 minutes ago, Eagle1993 said:

If BSA only incorporated in 2019 I bet you he is correct (at least in terms of picking Delaware).  BSA knew they were in serious financial trouble for many years.

You want dim sum, go to San Fransisco, CA. (Sorry NYC.)

You want country music, go to Nashville, TN.

You want the best beach, go to Hapuna on the Big Island of Hawaii.

You want the best art, go to the Met in NYC, NY.

You want the best BBQ, pie or hotdog...I ain't touching any of those.

You want to survive Chapter 11, go to Wilmington, DE.

Might be the one smart decision they made. Dunno.

Edited September 15, 2021 by ThenNow

[Muttsy]

22 minutes ago, CynicalScouter said:

Yes, but it is a giant leap from "incorporate in DE because of the bankruptcy court" (which OK, I might buy) to "incorporate in DE because of THIS PARTICULAR JUDGE".

I know federal court clerks, I've worked with and for them when they were but state court clerks and before they went over to the dark side, I mean federal side. The assignment of judges uses a literally bingo spinner or other random name puller.

So, for Kosnoff's konspiracy to work, BSA in 2019

1. Looked up the list of bankruptcy judges in 2019. In Delaware, there were 6 and Silverstein was NOT the chief judge.  https://web.archive.org/web/20190116175550/https://www.deb.uscourts.gov/judges-info-0
2. Having access to a crystal ball, they incorporated in Delaware knowing that their 1 in 6 chance to get Silverstein in a random draw in 2020 (two judges were added, so the odds went up to 1-in-8) was going to happen because the DE Bankruptcy Clerk was in on the conspiracy (konspiracy) as well.

Ok then.

 

I think the point of his Tweet is that DE is in the Third Federal Circuit which recognizes third party releases. TEXAS is the Fifth Circuit which does NOT. They used their DE shell corp to get it into the 3rd Circuit. We’ll see what she does here but she has a record not substantially different from Judge Drain. Maybe BSA just got lucky at the roulette wheel when it landed on green. 

[CynicalScouter]

13 minutes ago, Muttsy said:

I think the point of his Tweet is that DE is in the Third Federal Circuit which recognizes third party releases.

Nope. Read what he wrote: the point is he claiming BSA "chose" her.

Quote

Judge Silverstein was no accident. She was chosen by BSA.

As I noted: bankruptcy judges are not "chosen" by parties. They are randomly assigned UNLESS he wants to claim that the Clerk of the Delaware Bankruptcy Court and/or the judge herself conspired to get the case assigned to Silverstein and that they went around the random selection process.

All part of the Kosnoff Konspiracy I guess.

Edited September 15, 2021 by CynicalScouter

[CynicalScouter]

18 minutes ago, ThenNow said:

You want to survive Chapter 11, go to Wilmington, DE.

It isn't only that of course. Delaware is home to a LOT of businesses due its business friendly tax rates and its semi-dedicated business court (Chancery).

[Life]

26 minutes ago, ThenNow said:

You want dim sum, go to San Fransisco, CA. (Sorry NYC.)

You want country music, go to Nashville, TN.

You want the best beach, go to Hapuna on the Big Island of Hawaii.

You want the best art, go to the Met in NYC, NY.

You want the best BBQ, pie or hotdog...I ain't touching any of those.

You want to survive Chapter 11, go to Wilmington, DE.

Might be the one smart decision they made. Dunno.

I believe Louisville KY gets the bbq, pie, and hotdog. 

[ThenNow]

7 minutes ago, CynicalScouter said:

It isn't only that of course. Delaware is home to a LOT of businesses due its business friendly tax rates and its semi-dedicated business court (Chancery).

Yup. That was just too long to include in my pithy, potent prose.

1 minute ago, Life said:

I believe Louisville KY gets the bbq, pie, and hotdog. 

Oh, oh. You just started a war. I'm out!

[vol_scouter]

1 hour ago, SiouxRanger said:

I agree 100%.

I've been mulling your "Bankruptcy will not end Scouting" tag for a long time.

Existing (and prior) management, they may well kill Scouting-unless they go.  The corporate culture that got Scouting to this point has to change-and that is only accomplished by a clean sweep.  Will the shamed senior management remain in place to shout down junior level management's "we-told-you-so's?"

National's management has been a catastrophic moral failure. That alone is reason enough for the clean sweep.

Never mind the disastrous financial consequences, and the gutting of relationships with active volunteers (who understand all of this), CO's, and insurers.

"You have done enough. Have you no sense of decency?"  Attorney Joseph Welch to Senator Joseph McCarthy.

Time for retirements and resignations.

 

But the greatest damage done is National's denial and debasing of the principles it espouses.

The BSA has turned over the upper management that was present only 5 years ago with the exception of the general counsel.  The National Executive Committee (NEC) and National Executive Board (NEB) have had significant changes during the same period and both are very different from ten years ago.  The NEC and NEB have been working to make Scouting safer and the initial results look like they have succeeded.  The current BSA management, NEC, and NEB are not the ones who were in charge when the problems occurred.  So the changes have been made.

 

[CynicalScouter]

3 minutes ago, vol_scouter said:

both are very different from ten years ago.

Ah, no. I ran that data awhile about. A majority of NEB members present in 2010 were present in 2020, according to IRS 990 records. That's not "very different".

Unless BSA lied about who was on the NEB to the IRS.

And just a reminder: it is literally IMPOSSIBLE to even determine who the NEB are based on the website.

Only not for profit I know that hides leadership names.

Edited September 15, 2021 by CynicalScouter

[Eagle1993]

11 minutes ago, CynicalScouter said:

It isn't only that of course. Delaware is home to a LOT of businesses due its business friendly tax rates and its semi-dedicated business court (Chancery).

There is only 1 reason BSA incorporated in Delaware 2 years before bankruptcy and it isn't their business friendly tax rates (as MOST of their business stayed in Texas ... not exactly a high tax state).

https://www.detroitnews.com/story/business/2021/06/29/bankruptcy-court-venue-shopping-targeted-bipartisan-bill/7803835002/

Quote

Critics say companies prefer districts like New York and Delaware because judges there favor corporations over unions, retirees and small-time creditors. Since 2000, 71% of public companies with at least $100 million of assets filed for bankruptcy in a district other than one closest to their headquarters, according to a database maintained by LoPucki. 60% filed in Delaware and the Southern District of New York.

 

[ThenNow]

7 minutes ago, Eagle1993 said:

There is only 1 reason BSA incorporated in Delaware 2 years before bankruptcy and it isn't their business friendly tax rates (as MOST of their business stayed in Texas ... not exactly a high tax state).

I realize sound business decisions are just that, but I can't help thinking about the asset transfer tangle of last summer with the fairly clear implication it was not an isolated incident. Like this slippery shenanigans, there is only one genuine reason those "asset protection trusts" were create and used as depositories. Guess what it was? Hint: "Those abuse claimants are going to want our loot so what can we do so they can't?" Is any of this Scout-like? Any ol' business with shareholders and all, who cares. This one? Blech. It all makes me wretch.