Bankruptcy, everything but the legalese

[vol_scouter]

9 hours ago, ThenNow said:

Sorry. I’m being unclear. He was DE of our small council and became SE of the entity resulting from the merger of several. He got “bigger” as the council did. Thus, “SE in transition.” The council office location even remained the same.

So it is hard to know what happened.  My guess is that this DE was well liked by board members and had not alienated board members of the other councils in the merger.  So he was a peace maker.  Technically, he advanced to a 'new' council that had not existed before.  In some ways, these details are not important.  What is important is that he at the very least was not trying to protect youth and at worst was involved.  He should have been investigated and possibly tried for crimes.  Wish that had happened.  Wish even more that he had not only done his job but had done what is right - protecting children and youth.

[ThenNow]

49 minutes ago, vol_scouter said:

What is important is that he at the very least was not trying to protect youth and at worst was involved.  He should have been investigated and possibly tried for crimes.  Wish that had happened.  Wish even more that he had not only done his job but had done what is right - protecting children and youth.

Incidentally, I am told he was later busted for embezzlement. I think the drug habit caught up to him. 

[vol_scouter]

@ThenNow  Well he at least got some punishment for his crimes.  Still, should have been convicted for not protecting you.

[ThenNow]

17 minutes ago, vol_scouter said:

@ThenNow  Well he at least got some punishment for his crimes.  Still, should have been convicted for not protecting you.

He made restitution, was quickly back into the same industry and remains there (to the best of my knowledge). 

[vol_scouter]

15 minutes ago, ThenNow said:

He made restitution, was quickly back into the same industry and remains there (to the best of my knowledge). 

Unbelievable.   He deserves to be punished.   

[johnsch322]

Quick survey are we closer to the end of the end of the bankruptcy then the beginning and how much longer will all of this last?

[MYCVAStory]

8 hours ago, johnsch322 said:

Quick survey are we closer to the end of the end of the bankruptcy then the beginning and how much longer will all of this last?

One opinion....closer to the end of the bankruptcy than the beginning since a confirmation hearing is rapidly approaching.  But....if it all fails the clock resets to where all Survivors were the day before it was filed.  If it succeeds  then Survivors have to understand that a Trust needs to get up and running and claims are addressed "first in, first out" (FIFO) according to filing date.  Even then, as non-settling insurers are litigated by the Trust that will take time.  So, post any settlement this will take....more time.  Some Survivors might get a look at all of that and say "Give me my $3500 so I can forget about all of this.  And if some combination of the above happens, where third-parties can't be released, then Survivor litigation may commence for some.  Oh, and ALL of it can be appealed by objectors.  So, we're closer to the end of something....but not very close to the end of everything.  We're all living the reasons why bankruptcy was never intended to adjudicate sexual abuse.

[fred8033]

13 hours ago, johnsch322 said:

Quick survey are we closer to the end of the end of the bankruptcy then the beginning and how much longer will all of this last?

Define "end"?   BSA exits bankruptcy as a new fresh company?  Or approved agreements?  Appeals / challenges resolved?  Money is in the trust?  Money distributed from the trust?  

If just simply BSA exits bankruptcy ... BSA entered Feb 2020.  ... Exit date?  ... I have no clue. 

All legal wrangling?  Years.  This forum will have a thread on this very topic going still in 2024.

I hope BSA can exit bankruptcy this year.  ... but it's just hope ...

Edited February 7, 2022 by fred8033

[Eagle1993]

19 hours ago, johnsch322 said:

Quick survey are we closer to the end of the end of the bankruptcy then the beginning and how much longer will all of this last?

Do I think the end of the bankruptcy will go beyond February 2024?   While the trust will definitely still be open (per plan I think it goes until 2036 or so), and large payments may not be paid by then ... BSA will likely have emerged.  I'm not 100% sure, but with TCC & likely other major law firms talking it sound like we may have a plan that can go through confirmation.  Yes, the courts can definitely disrupt this ... but I still don't see it take until beyond Feb 2024 for BSA to exit.

I do think there is still chances for major setbacks.  For example, I would not be surprised to see the DOJ push back on any attempt to confirm a plan without sending it out for a revote.  Perhaps the judge disagrees but district court agrees.  Then you are talking perhaps May timing when the case comes back to bankruptcy and another 4 months or so for vote, tally, etc.  Even assuming everything goes smoothly, that 1 issue could push the bankruptcy back until October 2022.  Now what happens if district court rejects CO coverage ... that is a much bigger deal and could push this thing into 2023.  I just struggle to see paths to get this all the way to 2024, but I'm sure they exist.

 

[vol_scouter]

1 hour ago, Eagle1993 said:

Do I think the end of the bankruptcy will go beyond February 2024?   While the trust will definitely still be open (per plan I think it goes until 2036 or so), and large payments may not be paid by then ... BSA will likely have emerged.  I'm not 100% sure, but with TCC & likely other major law firms talking it sound like we may have a plan that can go through confirmation.  Yes, the courts can definitely disrupt this ... but I still don't see it take until beyond Feb 2024 for BSA to exit.

I do think there is still chances for major setbacks.  For example, I would not be surprised to see the DOJ push back on any attempt to confirm a plan without sending it out for a revote.  Perhaps the judge disagrees but district court agrees.  Then you are talking perhaps May timing when the case comes back to bankruptcy and another 4 months or so for vote, tally, etc.  Even assuming everything goes smoothly, that 1 issue could push the bankruptcy back until October 2022.  Now what happens if district court rejects CO coverage ... that is a much bigger deal and could push this thing into 2023.  I just struggle to see paths to get this all the way to 2024, but I'm sure they exist.

 

That is a bleak outlook for the BSA.  It cannot continue to pay $10 M per month in legal fees.   If that bill is drastically reduced and the membership increases, then it might be able to continue.  
 

This process has been very traumatic on victims and has been trying on all Scouters as well as those who work in Scouting.  So though you are likely correct, I am hoping for a quick resolution. 
 

[johnsch322]

Today I feel anger towards what happened to me and to this whole bankruptcy process.  Most of the time I can have my feelings under control but for whatever reason today is not one of them. 

I am tired about hearing about the greater good...what did the greater good ever do for me?

I am sick of hearing no amount of money will ever make you whole.  How can $750 a year for every year I have lived since the hellish acts committed upon me be anything but scratching the pain and making it worse?

I want myself and my fellow survivors to get more respect from the organization that allowed our lives to be destroyed.

I feel for those who have gone thru worst then I have and who's pain has manifested in misery at a greater degree than my own.

I want to shout at the people who keep saying well it was a different time back then....it does not change what happened.

Most of all I am just plain old tired.

[DuctTape]

Johnsch322, I am sorry for what happened to you, for what some people did to you, for the pain and suffering you endured, for what you continue to endure, for all the feelings and emotions surrounding your ordeal and those which continue or are amplified by the bankruptcy process. 

None of us here mean you more pain. I am sorry if any of my words (or those of others) caused you more. I am sorry you are tired. 

I am sorry.

[Eagle1993]

Lawmakers look to ax time limit for civil child sex abuse cases | Courthouse News Service

US Senate is moving to remove SOLs to file civil charges in federal court.  Big bipartisan support.

If this passes, how does it impact the bankruptcy case?  How does this impact liability of COs, LCs?

[1980Scouter]

There should be a paragraph in the final bankruptcy saying"Going forward any local council that has more than two serious abuse claims that are found to be justified,  that council will be shut down and not allowed to continue. A merger with a better non abuse laden council would be allowed."

 

[fred8033]

Using this thread out of respect for our moderators. 

Looked for updates this morning and saw ...  @MYCVAStory postd:  "TCC will be holding a Town Hall on Thursday, February 17, 2022 at 8 pm (Eastern) to discuss the latest ..."

I had a feeling that I'm in an episode of Twight Zone and Rod Sterling was talking.  It's Monday.  That's Thursday.   ... It's why bankruptcy takes so long?  

• Feb 18, 2020 -- BSA filed bankruptcy
• Feb 14, 2022 -- Today

At end of today ...

• elapsed days 728
• elapsed weeks 104
• elapsed months 24 (in a few more days)
• elapsed years 2 (in a few more days)

Add ten years of covering IVF file coverage (2012 release).  Add more for other lawsuit discussions (membership, GSA, religious, etc).  Starting with 1998 Supreme Court case.  My whole scouting era has been controversy and legal issues.  ...  For most of BSA's 110 years, I can't believe there was much controversy at all.  Just the last 20.