Bankruptcy, everything but the legalese

[ThenNow]

7 hours ago, fred8033 said:

I thought I heard in the past that BSA had been paying for counseling for some past victims.  I remember reading it.  The poster commented that when bankruptcy started those payments stopped.

You did. From me. They have not stopped, though. I have also been hounding the program coordinators to give me a sense of whether BSA plans to continue the program post-emergence. No one will say and it is not in the Plan to my knowledge. I didn’t see it in the Cliff Notes version, anyway. 

[johnsch322]

14 hours ago, gpurlee said:

Both experiences and perspectives are valid for the individuals involved. 

One of the values of this forum is to bring together and to share very diverse experiences.  Even if my experience is very different from yours, we can recognize and acknowledge that another's experience is valid and important to them. And that we can learn from one another. 

And perhaps help someone else on their journey.

I value perspectives.

I want to hear about diverse experiences.

I learn from others.

This has been a long and winding road.

I am not "greedy" and I do not believe that anyone who is a survivor is greedy. We all have had a different journey in how we have reacted to our abuse. I am on multiple forums and I will tell you that survivors come from all walks of life and have walked a myriad of journeys.  I will also tell you that not one survivor I have talked to has struck me as greedy.

I do find that a lot of survivors are misinformed, confused, angry, and trust no one. Many believe that the BSA should be eradicated and that the leadership should be imprisoned.  In some ways how can you blame them.  Some believe they should receive millions.  How can you blame them?  They see and hear from media on a constant basis about multimillion dollar individual settlements from insurance companies, abusers, and enablers.  To wish for yourself a settlement that is the same is not greediness.

I ask myself on an almost daily basis what I want the outcome of the BSA bankruptcy to be for me and if there is a dollar amount that would satisfy me.  I am smart enough to know that money alone will not take away my pain or by itself make me a happy person.  I used the 30% VA disability to highlight how little the current settlement is (I am a veteran with a 30% disability but not for PTSD).  My $500 month has not cured my tinnitus nor given me back my hearing.  My hands still ache every day.  

I think about my survivor contacts who to this day are fighting their addiction issues whether they are using or fighting to stay sober.  I think about my survivor friends and myself who fight depression, take antidepressants daily and have constant therapy sessions.  I think about @ThenNowwho has been hospitalized as a result of someone who took advantage of him and he has to pay for this treatment out of his own pocket.  I am sure that it has cost him close to $500,000 so farin his lifetime. If I had to pay for my own treatment it would be an easy $500 per month for just therapy and drugs.  Is it greed to wish for these costs to be covered?

I daydream sometimes wondering what my life would have been like if I didn't have anger issues, trust issues and could emotionally connect in relationships.  I grieve over the fact that because of my depression I contributed to my daughters depression and her suicide attempt.  

I get angry with the BSA for reaching an agreement with the insurance companies.  How dare the BSA who never reached out to me knowing at least 11 boys in my troop were molested by one of my abusers and now believe that they should come to a deal with the insurers on my behalf for a pittance of their net worth.  I ask is that greed?

I get emotional when someone says or insinuates that I am robbing a young person of the experience of scouting when it was the BSA who chose the bankruptcy route and then decided to try give LC's, CO's, and insurers etc. a way to get out from under liabilities for pennies on the dollar.  Is that greed on my part?

Once again, I do not believe that myself nor the majority of survivors are "greedy" for wanting more than this current proposal is offering.

Edited December 21, 2021 by johnsch322

[clbkbx]

8 minutes ago, johnsch322 said:

I will tell you that survivors come from all walks of life and have walked a myriad of journeys.

Thank you for this post, @johnsch322.

[Eagle1970]

The degree of injury to some survivors leaves me nearly in tears.  

[johnsch322]

35 minutes ago, Eagle1970 said:

The degree of injury to some survivors leaves me nearly in tears.  

Once some form of a settlement is done will not mean that survivors won't still be suffering.

I try to think about how I can help others.  How can my voice, my pen and my words be used to help other survivors? I cannot answer myself at this point of time but hopefully an answer will come to me. 

[skeptic]

36 minutes ago, Eagle1970 said:

The degree of injury to some survivors leaves me nearly in tears.  

An absolutely accurate comment, even for those of us that feel the process has to have some type of "balance", for lack of what seems to be a better word.  There is no absolute cure; again, beat to death.  There is a way to recognize past errors in judgement and societal responses, and to make efforts to stop those as often as possible, given the propensity of some to not pay attention or trust, even when the indicators are there.  I do not feel that the survivors should not be helped and given recompense.  But that cannot be limitless, and it should not be built on the backs of other innocents.  Hopefully most will find a way forward.  And, as noted more than once, final recompense to the true predators is not in any of our hands, but I believe a higher power will make that judgement.  Merry Christmas, etc. to all.

[ThenNow]

1 hour ago, Eagle1970 said:

The degree of injury to some survivors leaves me nearly in tears.  

As I’ve said elsewhere on this forum, I’m in this for my family. Well, that was motivated by the notion there would be a noteworthy award coming to me/them. Now, I feel like I’m putting them through more pain as they watch me fight this daily. My most gut wrenching, ugly crying is for my wife and kids. Honestly, I can’t think about it for more than a few seconds without crying. (John said much the same thing about his relationships and, especially, his daughter.)

Edited December 21, 2021 by ThenNow

[ThenNow]

43 minutes ago, skeptic said:

I believe a higher power will make that judgement

You’re not referring to my family members here, correct? Just checkin’.  

[skeptic]

24 minutes ago, ThenNow said:

You’re not referring to my family members here, correct? Just checkin’.  

Not that I am aware of.  But, I am simply me, and I do not have the power of omniscience.  

 

[clbkbx]

2 hours ago, skeptic said:

I do not feel that the survivors should not be helped and given recompense.  But that cannot be limitless, and it should not be built on the backs of other innocents. 

Now survivors want "limitless" recompense? Sounds like a different term for "greedy."

I was innocent before the abuse that happened to me. The BSA knew this was an issue, did not make the program safe for kids and continued operating successfully. That was built on the backs of me and others who were innocent.  

At the start of this, I assumed BSA would continue. But now I think, who cares? Is there something great about scouting, yes. Is there something great about the BSA organization itself, certainly not in the current iteration. The BSA isn't meaningfully changing for the better, is looking out for its own best interests (which only partially overlaps with the interests of the youth scouts) and continues to act in bad faith.

I'm not sure this will convince you otherwise, but the "balance" is not between survivors and innocent kids but between survivors and a lousy organization. 

[johnsch322]

1 hour ago, ThenNow said:

Same, especially given the vote in Purdue

Add those four paragraphs together and I see a collage of Thunderdome on the horizon. (Nod to Mel as MMax.)

Tina Turner is warming up her vocals

”out of the ruins  
out from the wreckage

can’t make the same mistake this time

we are the children

the last generation

we are the ones they left behind”

Edited December 21, 2021 by johnsch322

[ThenNow]

25 minutes ago, johnsch322 said:

Tina Turner is warming up her vocals

Good man. Another old guy caught it! Bravo, Brother John! Well done, you!

[ThenNow]

Ok. I need to humor myself after that hearing. I hope I don’t get another scarlet letter, but I can’t hold this any longer. Of all the awful files I’ve read, this one simply makes me laugh. Sublimity dwells amid precision and pith. I don’t make these up. Straight from an IV File. Scout’s honor...

[skeptic]

Well, if he is/was, they did the right thing.  Yes?

 

[ThenNow]

Just now, skeptic said:

Well, if he is/was, they did the right thing.  Yes?

Yes.