Bankruptcy, everything but the legalese

[skeptic]

5 minutes ago, ThenNow said:

How does that work for some of us who have already lost/invested/said bye-bye to 100’s of thousands in real spendable dollars, as per my post up yonder?  

It cannot fully compensate, or cure, or fix.  We reach the point of punishing the innocent at the expense of an impossible goal.  They could give you all a billion dollars, and you still would still not be made whole; and the hate and enmity would still be there.  That lies in the realm of powers that supercede this whole mess.  

[ThenNow]

19 minutes ago, skeptic said:

It cannot fully compensate, or cure, or fix.  We reach the point of punishing the innocent at the expense of an impossible goal.  They could give you all a billion dollars, and you still would still not be made whole; and the hate and enmity would still be there.  That lies in the realm of powers that supercede this whole mess.  

We’ve done this hoedown a number of times, so I best make it quick. “Fully compensated” was addressed above in my being healed of delusional thinking. Also, I ain’t angling for a “fix.” Been clean and sober for 17 years in January. And, no “cure” for what ails me. A billion dollars? Hm. Well now. As to “hate and enmity,” which stinky language has had cast my way before, from whence cometh that accusation? I’ll repeat myself again, since it’s been so long. I reckon it’s worth repeating. Few if any here know what I’ve done or continue to do for Scouting. So there. Tag your it. Miley Cyrus is calling your name.  

Edited December 20, 2021 by ThenNow

[Eagle1970]

2 hours ago, johnsch322 said:

A thought came to me about just and fair compensation and how ridiculous the current offer is and let me explain. 

Survivors at a minimum suffer from PTSD, depression and anxiety.  If the VA determined that you had these same conditions from a traumatic event (and the sexual abuse is considered (traumatic) you would be awarded a minimum of a 30% disability.  A 30% disability would get you tax free approximately $500 per month or $6000 per year.  In addition you would be entitled free medical and that could easily be seen as an additional $500 per month.  If you got your VA award at the age of 30 and you lived until the age of 83 (hypothetical of course) you would have an award of $600,00.  

I know that we are in a bankruptcy but with an average award under the current plan to be about $39,000 or less (depends on who does the math) that is a pitiful amount compared to $600,000.  If I receive $39,000 and had to pay no lawyers fees and my abuse happened at the age of 13 and I lived to be 83 I would have received it would come out to $557 dollars for every year that I suffered.

Well stated.  I'll trade my way out of Greyville in my closed state any day, and the $7500 that will go with it, if I'm lucky.  But whether it is $3500 or $7500 or $39,000 it is pitiful.  We cannot look at this as any sort of just compensation.  Rather, it is a token.  And that's all it will ever be.

[skeptic]

13 minutes ago, ThenNow said:

We’ve done this hoedown a number of times, so I best make it quick. “Fully compensated” was addressed above in my being healed of delusional thinking. Also, I ain’t angling for a “fix.” Been clean and sober for 17 years in January. And, no “cure” for what ails me. A billion dollars? Hm. Well now. As to “hate and enmity,” which stinky language has had cast my way before, from whence cometh that accusation? I’ll repeat myself again, since it’s been so long. I reckon it’s worth repeating. Few if any here know what I’ve done or continue to do for Scouting. So there. Tag your it. Miley Cyrus is calling your name.  

Well, miley is of no interest, and we will view the mess differently.  I pray that somehow some lessening of the burden happens, but just not at the expense of the, as we have said again and again, the total destruction of the largely great program.  Ill feelings also are beyond most our pervues, but the level is not mine to judge.  You and others have that right, and if I had the way to do it, I would somehow take it away.  Again, I do not have that power, and so again, I wish you well and hope you might find some kind of position closer to peace.  Good luck, and Merry Christmas or whatever perspective of the season you may favor.  And thank you for any positive things you have done, or continue to do, for Scouting.  No reconciling that picture for me though, as the larger goal does not seem aimed at its best interests.  

[ThenNow]

3 minutes ago, skeptic said:

Merry Christmas

100% Merry Christmas! (None of that other seasonal dilution for me.) I truly mean it. 

[InquisitiveScouter]

36 minutes ago, skeptic said:

the total destruction of the largely great program. 

I do wish I could get across to all...the loss of the BSA does not mean the loss of Scouting (the program).  Please separate the two "entities" in your thinking.

Scouting was around before the BSA appeared, and we can continue it just fine if the BSA disappears.

Is your loyalty to Scouting, the movement?  Or to BSA, the corporation?  (Or neither, or both 😜 ??)

 

Edited December 20, 2021 by InquisitiveScouter

[johnsch322]

1 hour ago, skeptic said:

Well, I would say that at least makes a picture that makes some sense, though is really still apples and oranges to some extent.  Also, far too many questions arise as to how many valid claims there may be, and also the categories in which they fall in the continum devised by the "experts".  

 

PTSD, Depression and Anxiety as a result of trauma is not apples and oranges.  My post was not in reference to how many valid claims there are but instead but instead how much is a valid/equitable compensation that there should be.  As you have never gone on the record (except for calling claimants greedy) I will ask you once again...what do you feel would be a proper compensation by dollar figure for a survivor.  

Please answer honestly because I feel in your heart you want to say ZERO compensation.

[RememberSchiff]

Lets keep the discussion scoutlike.

Thanks, RS

[skeptic]

20 minutes ago, johnsch322 said:

PTSD, Depression and Anxiety as a result of trauma is not apples and oranges.  My post was not in reference to how many valid claims there are but instead but instead how much is a valid/equitable compensation that there should be.  As you have never gone on the record (except for calling claimants greedy) I will ask you once again...what do you feel would be a proper compensation by dollar figure for a survivor.  

Please answer honestly because I feel in your heart you want to say ZERO compensation.

And you would be wrong.  But I also have no idea how to come up with a number for the damages, especially since so much is emotional and has no accurated way to measure.  As I said to TN; good luck and I truly hope you find some way to deal with your personal issues beyond casting blame and insinuation on others.  As I noted, the help is far beyond me, or anyone pressing this.  Judgement is not mine, it is greater than any  of us.  Merry Christmas to you as well; please find some comfort in the real message of the season.

[johnsch322]

9 minutes ago, skeptic said:

But I also have no idea how to come up with a number for the damages,

If you have no idea on how to come up with damages then how can you make an assessment that what survivors are asking for is in your word "greedy"? 

 

13 minutes ago, skeptic said:

I truly hope you find some way to deal with your personal issues beyond casting blame and insinuation on others. 

When a trauma to a person or persons happens as a result of an action by another (especially when it is an adult assaulting a child) there are bound to be personal issues.  The blame is on the abuser and the institution that allowed it to happen.

If you have not noticed or read the BSA had insurance policies at the times of these atrocities were committed and the policies for the most part were for a cap of one million dollars per occurrence and these policies were written in the 60's and 70's when one million had much more buying power.  So why now should anyone feel that a $39,000 dollar average is adequate?

23 minutes ago, skeptic said:

Judgement is not mine

But you do cast judgement you call us greedy.

[DJ72]

39 minutes ago, RememberSchiff said:

Lets keep the discussion scoutlike.

It appears I was censored without any communication as to why for pointing out that the weakness of Skeptic's argument about the :BSA and its mostly positive outreach" statement.  This is wrong on so many level...the censorship.  It reminds me of how thing were treated by BSA leadership when I reported the abuse  that was thrust upon me.  For some, being scoutlike means trustworthy, honor and community service.  For others of us, being scoutlike means sodomy, rape and abuse.  Tough words?......absolutely.  True words?.......also absolutely.   The harsh realities of the abuse has to be at the forefront of any discussion here.   

[RememberSchiff]

A personal attack on other forum members is unscoutlike behavior.

~ RS

Edited December 21, 2021 by RememberSchiff

[DJ72]

29 minutes ago, RememberSchiff said:

A personal attack on other forum members is unscoutlike behavior.

~ RS

I'm trying to get a handle on this.  In quotes, here is the last sentence of  letter posted by the TCC to all abuse survivors.  "The Boy Scouts have announced a program for counseling. You can request information about this program by calling 1-866-907-2721 or emailing restructuring@scouting.org".  In my post, I suggest counseling for the lack of empathy toward survivors by the original poster.  How exactly is that a personal attack?  I'm asking respectfully and would like a response.  

[Eagle1970]

1 hour ago, DJ72 said:

I'm trying to get a handle on this.  In quotes, here is the last sentence of  letter posted by the TCC to all abuse survivors.  "The Boy Scouts have announced a program for counseling. You can request information about this program by calling 1-866-907-2721 or emailing restructuring@scouting.org".  In my post, I suggest counseling for the lack of empathy toward survivors by the original poster.  How exactly is that a personal attack?  I'm asking respectfully and would like a response.  

I'm not getting involved in moderator matters.  But on the counseling, the last place I would go is through BSA.  Not even a 3rd party arranged by BSA.   Again, only those who suffered child sexual abuse would fully get this.

[fred8033]

2 hours ago, Eagle1970 said:

I'm not getting involved in moderator matters.  But on the counseling, the last place I would go is through BSA.  Not even a 3rd party arranged by BSA.   Again, only those who suffered child sexual abuse would fully get this.

I thought I heard in the past that BSA had been paying for counseling for some past victims.  I remember reading it.  The poster commented that when bankruptcy started those payments stopped.

Edited December 21, 2021 by fred8033