Bankruptcy, everything but the legalese

[johnsch322]

20 minutes ago, qwazse said:

I follow your stories because relaying them is the most authentic way I can communicate to my scouts why some adults are taking their camps from them and driving the costs of being in their organization to unprecedented heights. I also hope that it will help an abused youth to find the strength to come forward sooner rather than later.

The first part of this paragraph is a bit unsettling. @ThenNowand other adult survivors like myself are not taking camps from kids or causing higher costs rather it was the actions of sexual predators that are the cause and the neglect of the organization to put proper controls in place in a timely manner.  

I do like the second part of your paragraph.  The second person I told of my abuse was my teen age daughter.  I wanted her to know that if something had or did happen to her not to be ashamed of it.

[ThenNow]

https://people.com/crime/boy-scouts-sex-abuse-settlement-vote/?utm_campaign=peoplemagazine&utm_content=new&utm_medium=social&utm_source=twitter.com&utm_term=61b1ffb54c9fd40001e2efd0

[Eagle1993]

3 hours ago, ThenNow said:

https://people.com/crime/boy-scouts-sex-abuse-settlement-vote/?utm_campaign=peoplemagazine&utm_content=new&utm_medium=social&utm_source=twitter.com&utm_term=61b1ffb54c9fd40001e2efd0

I deleted my post after seeing this.

BSA is quoted as evaluating their 72 hour rule...

[johnsch322]

3 hours ago, ThenNow said:

https://people.com/crime/boy-scouts-sex-abuse-settlement-vote/?utm_campaign=peoplemagazine&utm_content=new&utm_medium=social&utm_source=twitter.com&utm_term=61b1ffb54c9fd40001e2efd0

This is for all those who believe and defend current YPT.  This happened only 3 years ago.

[MikeS72]

12 minutes ago, johnsch322 said:

This is for all those who believe and defend current YPT.  This happened only 3 years ago.

If YPT policies were followed, it should have been very difficult for something like this to have happened.  

When we did the Protect Yourself Rules adventure with our Cub Scouts, I emphasized repeatedly to them that they can never be alone with any adult at any Scout activity, other than their parents.  Not me, not another parent, not anyone.

The biggest thing YPT related that I hope comes out of this is the elimination of the 72 hour rule.  I have voiced my opinion on this both here, and in my unit, district, and council.  Anyone who wants to accompany us on any outing needs to be registered, take YPT training, and be background checked.  When I have stated this here, I have on occasion been called out, with some stating that there could be many reasons beside CSA that could cause someone to not want to go through the background check.  My view there is simple, and will not change.  I do not care why someone might refuse to register due to the background check requirement.  The fact that they would refuse it is sufficient to say that I do not want them around my Scouts.

[skeptic]

Let's put another exclamation point.  It is not that the YP was not enough, it was that it was not followed.  As we have trumpeted regularly, YP is only as good as its proper use.  And, in reality, even before the much enhanced rules, most things would have been avoided if precautions were in place and action taken when it appeared something was not as it should be.  

[Eagle1993]

4 minutes ago, skeptic said:

Let's put another exclamation point.  It is not that the YP was not enough, it was that it was not followed.  As we have trumpeted regularly, YP is only as good as its proper use.  And, in reality, even before the much enhanced rules, most things would have been avoided if precautions were in place and action taken when it appeared something was not as it should be.  

I think the question is ... who didn't enforce YPT in this pack.

• How did the adult gain access to the youth? Were there trained leaders present at these outings that did not enforce YPT? 
• How was the youth allowed to attend without parents?  Per G2SS, the youth must have had 1 adult responsible for him while he attended.  Who was that adult?
• Did the charter organization provide sufficient oversight of the unit?  Were all leaders registered and trained in YPT?  Were they aware of the outing and that a youth attended without his parents?  Do they some how ensure the unit follows G2SS?
• Is there anything the district or camp should have noticed with this unit?  Did they have prior YPT violations?

We simply do not have the information, but there are a lot of rules and procedures in place that should have prevented this.  

[MattR]

There absolutely was a problem with adults not following well thought out rules. However, there was still a failure and a scout was badly hurt. So maybe there isn't a need to add more adults but there is a need to have more adults follow the existing rules. The current model of watching an hour long video isn't working and it never has.

I started a thread about improving quality at the unit level because of this exact scenario. Adults at one unit get lax and all of a sudden every unit suffers, as well as a child. It's in everyone's interest to make sure everyone follows these rules. I have no idea how to make that happen in the BSA as it currently exists.

[skeptic]

We can only hope that most who choose to sign in will choose also to adhere to the rules.  But, there is never an absolute.  And it has little to do with BSA, but rather with the reality of the bad side of human nature.  And to think somehow because the precepts of BSA are upright and on target those in it will be also is naive.  But, if the heavy majority are being aware and paying attention, it is far less likely to happen.

 

[InquisitiveScouter]

1 hour ago, MattR said:

I have no idea how to make that happen in the BSA as it currently exists.

I tell every adult at the beginning of our camping trips, "If you intentionally hurt a child under our care, I will hurt you, and I don't care if I go to jail."  And they know I mean it, and there are others who back me up

Edited December 10, 2021 by InquisitiveScouter

[yknot]

5 minutes ago, InquisitiveScouter said:

I tell every adult at the beginning of our camping trips, "If you intentionally hurt a child under our care, I will hurt you, and I don't care if I go to jail."  And they know I mean it, and there are others who back me up

That is very impressive but do you ever wonder what is wrong with us if we are involved with an organization where we think we actually need to say that before we head out with kids in our care?

[T2Eagle]

7 minutes ago, yknot said:

That is very impressive but do you ever wonder what is wrong with us if we are involved with an organization where we think we actually need to say that before we head out with kids in our care?

I've never even thought of saying something like that, and if I ever thought I had to I wouldn't be going myself.

[yknot]

2 minutes ago, T2Eagle said:

I've never even thought of saying something like that, and if I ever thought I had to I wouldn't be going myself.

I think you're lucky. 

[InquisitiveScouter]

19 minutes ago, T2Eagle said:

I've never even thought of saying something like that, and if I ever thought I had to I wouldn't be going myself.

If I could see into everyone's heart, I'd probably never have to say such a thing.  But you have no idea what motives people have until you spend a good deal of time with them.

[InquisitiveScouter]

40 minutes ago, yknot said:

That is very impressive but do you ever wonder what is wrong with us if we are involved with an organization where we think we actually need to say that before we head out with kids in our care?

No.  Nothing wrong with letting everyone know you will defend, tooth and claw, those who cannot defend themselves.