Bankruptcy, everything but the legalese

[ThenNow]

PS - Anyone who doesn’t know want to hazard a guess on how many full pages comprise the National org chart? 

[yknot]

5 hours ago, Eagle1970 said:

I trained Race Horses for over a decade.  Once a storied sport, complete with celebrities and grand celebrations of well-dressed enthusiasts, it was transformed into a closed society where homeless and jobless sought shelter and minimal wages.  Over 20 years, the entire industry consolidated into few regional tracks that are largely populated by the aged, still attached by a tether to their younger days, with little participation from younger generations.  And the gambling that drove it didn't miss a beat in going online, apps, casinos and so on.  Simply stated, life changes.

And so it is with scouts.  When I was a boy, it seems like the cool kids were scouting.  These days, they are doing other things, some I understand and others I don't.  Some are healthy and some are not.  But life changes.  And scouting has the additional baggage of a history of abuse, which is front and center now.  I saw a post on fb this week about a troop having had its equipment trailer stolen.  The key post was something about having one less opportunity for the perverts to abuse the boys.  Seems cold, but not so unrealistic.  My wife and I still explore, but not as a part of an organized group.  If I were still raising children, I would still spend time with them and would still explore, but would not entrust them to BSA or any other group where I could not be there for them.  I do not see BSA surviving as in the past, though it may take time for the candle to completely wear out.  And don't get me started on the Catholic church.  Suffice it to say this is Sunday morning and I am not in the 3rd pew.

 

I have also been involved in aspects of the horse industry and that is indeed a world that has changed dramatically, especially racing. However, since you bring it up, two aspects of that world that touch youth and are relevant to scouting -- 4-H and US Pony Club -- have done a much better job of adapting to change. Those youth organizations have modified many aspects of their programs, tried to make involvement more affordable, and have found ways to retain and involve graduate young adults and older alumni. I have always thought that Pony Club is a particularly interesting comparison because although it operates on a minute scale compared to scouting, it has many similarities. It is a Britsh export for one, also developed around a military ideal. It further has a ratings system, peer involvment, high risk activities, and character development and service components. Over the past couple decades, its youth membership has increased rather than declined despite the key ingredient -- horses, and in particular the backyard horse -- melting away from the American landscape. 4-H is also doing pretty well despite the odds with membership. 

I had hopes at the beginning of the bankruptcy that BSA would finally be forced to turn itself inside out and reorganize around youth and units. Make some really innovative changes. Get some new leadership. Fix some of the problems that seemed easy to fix. The past two years have squelched that hope in me. It seems like the response to the bankruptcy has been the same operating procedures, the same leadership and outlooks, the same insular viewpoints, and some dismaying un-scoutlike behavior. 

[mrjohns2]

3 hours ago, ThenNow said:

PS - Anyone who doesn’t know want to hazard a guess on how many full pages comprise the National org chart? 

Is the org char in the last filing? 

 

Transparency is one of the things I would change.

Simplicity

Self-Consistency

Have all National staffers and volunteers camp in tents for summer camp and go on 4 campouts a year with troops. 

Reduce costs by not always being so fancy about certain things

Eliminate all cufflinks (Results for cufflinks (scoutshop.org))

Move the headquarters to the Summit and Philmont. Shut down Texas. 

[ThenNow]

33 minutes ago, mrjohns2 said:

Is the org char in the last filing?

No. I had to find a source willing to give it to me.

To answer my question, 27 pages. And, some of the sub-charts are very small, due to how deep and wide there are. Boy, howdy, but ain’t this  one sure ‘nough high density skyscraper?! “I just adore a penthouse view, dah-ling...!”(Heart palpitations and a genteel nod to Zsa Zsa.)

PS - Does this mean I have to turn in my Eagle Scout cufflinks? Mercy...

Edited December 6, 2021 by ThenNow

[SNEScouter]

5 hours ago, ThenNow said:

Question for Scouters: If you made a list of the top 5 things National needs to do to implement transformational change, what would be on it? No need to include elements of YPT. 

I attended the World Scout Jamboree in 2019.  I got a very small glimpse of what Scouting is like in other countries.  Based on those observations, I’d suggest two areas of improvement:

1) Reduce barriers to entry.  As discussed elsewhere, with registration fees are going up.  There probably is not much we can do about that, but do Cub Scouts really need to spend so money on uniforms?  A t-shirt and jeans/shorts are enough.

2) Other countries have very active Scouting programs for 18-25 year olds, and they leverage those 18-25 y/os to provide leadership to the younger Scouts.  Colleges have Scouting orgs within them that help maintain the connection to Scouting.  BSA could benefit from this.

[InquisitiveScouter]

7 hours ago, ThenNow said:

Question for Scouters: If you made a list of the top 5 things National needs to do to implement transformational change, what would be on it? No need to include elements of YPT. I would like to see if there is significant concurrence among you. From the list I’ve made, there are several elements that have been repeated many times by various of you over the 27 years I’ve been lurking. Thanks.

Transformational...hmmm

1.  Want quality local leaders?  Find a way to incentivize it.  The program is sufficiently complex that, to do it well requires more time and knowledge than the average group of people can devote as volunteers.  Imagine a sort of professional Scoutmaster/teacher role...

2.  Council and National senior position term limits.  Five years as SE (etc.) and then out.  Would require looking at career progression and making some sense of this.  Maybe board limits, too, but probably a longer term.

3.  Subsidize costs of adult training and support.  (see #1)  (Learn to apply for grant money for this.)  For example, it's just idiotic that you want me to volunteer my time and expertise at a National Jamboree, and then pay you for the privilege.  No thanks...

4.  Have a Chief Scout (see separate thread...I love this idea from @RememberSchiff)  https://www.scouter.com/topic/32886-what-if-we-dropped-chief-scout-executive-and-brought-back-chief-scout/?tab=comments#comment-536720

5.  Allow youth up to 25 to earn Eagle Scout.

6.  Bring in (or back) a cumulative knowledge and skills requirement.  Stop the "one and done" for critical Scout and life skills.  Allow Boards of Review to test Scout knowledge and skills for ranks as you go up the ladder.

[DuctTape]

adding to #6, except for mBs, all rank requirements must be completed "as a ____ scout".

[ThenNow]

7 minutes ago, DuctTape said:

adding to #6, except for mBs, all rank requirements must be completed "as a ____ scout".

Explain for the slow learner, please?

[InquisitiveScouter]

Just now, ThenNow said:

Explain for the slow learner, please?

Right now, a Scout can complete requirements for Scout through First Class concurrently, although the ranks must be earned in order.  

That is, technically, one could finish all the requirements for First Class before finishing the requirements for Scout rank.  But, the youth will not be awarded First Class until earning Second Class.

Theoretically, a Scout could earn all these ranks at the exact same time, having saved a single Scout rank requirement as the very last one to complete.

This practice produces less than desirable results...but that is another post.

Hope this helps.

[scoutldr]

8 minutes ago, InquisitiveScouter said:

Right now, a Scout can complete requirements for Scout through First Class concurrently, although the ranks must be earned in order.  

That is, technically, one could finish all the requirements for First Class before finishing the requirements for Scout rank.  But, the youth will not be awarded First Class until earning Second Class.

That's the way it was back in my day...early 60s.  COuld not begin working on a rank's requirements until the previous rank was awarded.  I believe it was changed around the time of "First Class First Year", when they believed that once a Scout made FC, he was more likely to stay.

[DuctTape]

...and they could get signed off for 3 ranks (tenderfoot, 2nd, and 1st) for completing a single activity.

[Eagle94-A1]

1 hour ago, scoutldr said:

That's the way it was back in my day...early 60s.  COuld not begin working on a rank's requirements until the previous rank was awarded.  I believe it was changed around the time of "First Class First Year", when they believed that once a Scout made FC, he was more likely to stay.

In 1972, Skill Awards came out and were required for Tenderfoot through First Class. Skill Awards focused on all of the skills in one specific area, and were immediate recognition because you still had the tenure requirements for Tenderfoot through First Class ranks. If you finished the Skill Awards needed for rank advancement before the tenure requirement was completed, you usually worked on the next batch of Skill Awards while you waited.

In August 1989, "OPERATION FIRST CLASS" came about. Skill Awards were done away with, and the requirements spread out through the Tenderfoot through First Class ranks. So instead of focusing on one to two sets of skills and mastering them, you worked on a bunch of skills at the same time. Also the tenure requirements were removed, allowing for one person to go from Scout to First Class after about a month or 2 of program in one night.

That situation did in fact happen. Scout joined in May, went to June and August campouts and summer camp's first year camper program. Since this was a new situation for us, we had 3 different BORs for him that night. We found out later, you can do one BOR for all three ranks.

Not a fan.

[ThenNow]

I had an epiphany this morning. I know. Scary, coming from me. Here it is. BSA is an addict. It refuses to realize it has hit rock bottom. Therefore, it does not want to get help. It’s not ready. It thinks all will be well, once the evil bankruptcy monkey is exorcised from the backpack. It does not see nor welcome the Chapter 11 process as the reorganization and restructuring intervention opportunity it is. It will not go to rehab. It will not do a “searching and fearless moral inventory” of itself. It does not want to receive input from those who care and know what ails it. It will not admit it is “powerless over its addiction” to the past, its image, its ways, its mindset and its self-perception. It will not make a “list of those it has harmed or become willing to make amends,” much less “make direct amends wherever possible.” I could go on, but I’m going to fetch another cup of coffee and see if I can get a vision illuminating the path to my next big stock pick. Brb...

PS - I am not only referring to survivors for that list of amends. I include you guys. Nothing on the stock yet. Still roasting beans.

Edited December 6, 2021 by ThenNow

[elitts]

4 hours ago, scoutldr said:

That's the way it was back in my day...early 60s.  COuld not begin working on a rank's requirements until the previous rank was awarded.  I believe it was changed around the time of "First Class First Year", when they believed that once a Scout made FC, he was more likely to stay.

I always wondered about that reasoning.  It's like it never occured to them that the reason kids that reached FC were more likely to stay was that they were the kids who liked the program enough to have spent 1-3 years working on requirements.  It's not like being awarded FC is going to make the kid that was going to drop out after the first year more likely to stay.

Edited December 6, 2021 by elitts

[InquisitiveScouter]

1 hour ago, ThenNow said:

I had an epiphany this morning. I know. Scary, coming from me. Here it is. BSA is an addict. It refuses to realize it has hit rock bottom. Therefore, it does not want to get help. It’s not ready. It thinks all will be well, once the evil bankruptcy monkey is exorcised from the backpack. It does not see nor welcome the Chapter 11 process as the reorganization and restructuring intervention opportunity it is. It will not go to rehab. It will not do a “searching and fearless moral inventory” of itself. It does not want to receive input from those who care and know what ails it. It will not admit it is “powerless over its addiction” to the past, its image, its ways, its mindset and its self-perception. It will not make a “list of those it has harmed or become willing to make amends,” much less “make direct amends wherever possible.” I could go on, but I’m going to fetch another cup of coffee and see if I can get a vision illuminating the path to my next big stock pick. Brb...

PS - I am not only referring to survivors for that list of amends. I include you guys. Nothing on the stock yet. Still roasting beans.

Bingo.

And buy TSLA