Bankruptcy, everything but the legalese

[fred8033]

4 hours ago, ThenNow said:

I think I answered this with flourish during and after Michael Johnson’s statement at the press conference, but I’ll run it back. What Mr. Johnson DID, as a critical and even more valuable addition to what he said, demonstrated what a heartfelt apology is. It’s human. It has skin on it. It sheds tears. It shows remorse and grief and sorrow and empathy. It is not a press release or published interview or newsletter. That’s what did not happen and we doubt ever will. If you don’t get it, you probably won’t. The next time you very deeply hurt someone for whom you profess deep love, commitment and dedication write a note in the daily Gazette for them to find. Don’t ever say anything that exhibits vulnerability or contrition live and in person. Ouch. 

Ok.  Thank you.  No need for words such as "If you don't get it, you probably won't."  Those words are ugly and mean.  

I understand your point.  It's the personal connection of a heart felt apology.  The human expression.  ... I know I saw that during our SE's discussion and the discussion that followed between the SE and district leaders / unit leaders / CORs.  He expressed everything you could express in a personal, heartfelt apology.  It was painful.   ... I'm sure other scout leader have experienced similar.  

In my post ... last night I asked the moderators to remove as it wasn't worth continuing ... it must have been removed after your reading ... my post quoted several articles showing BSA's apology.  Here's the one that I thought was most human and not a press conference.

         https://www.bsarestructuring.org/wp-content/uploads/2020/02/BSA_An-Open-Letter-to-Victims.pdf

I'm just not sure what the next level of apology is.  

IMHO, ... sometimes the hurt is so bad, that you can't move past an apology.  You can hear the words, but the relationship can't be healed.  I fear this is one of those situations.  The pain.  The damage.  The tortured emotions.  The broken trust.  People will try to apologize, but it's too late.  ... Like a marriage where one partner does something so horrible that the other partner just can't forgive.  The partner can apologize continually, daily for years and decades, but the other partner just can't move forward.  ... I fear this very similar.

I really think we are in this situation.  There is no apology to heal CSA.  

Edited October 20, 2021 by fred8033

[Eagle1993]

Boy Scout abuse survivor recounts horror for first time, says settlement is ‘massive step forward’

https://nypost.com/2021/10/19/boy-scout-abuse-survivor-recounts-horror-for-first-time/

Boy Scouts' settlement plan unjust, Arkansas victims say

https://www.nwaonline.com/news/2021/oct/20/boy-scouts-settlement-plan-unjust-victims-say/

[ThenNow]

1 hour ago, fred8033 said:

No need for words such as "If you don't get it, you probably won't."  Those words are ugly and mean.  

No. Apologies. “You” was meant to be a generic reference. If “you” please and prefer: “If one doesn’t get it, one never will.” One size fits all…”if the shoe fits.” As a preacher once said, if you throw a stone (convicting message) into a pack of dogs, the one who whelps got hit. NOT saying that’s you. Further, my statement is 100% accurate. Emotional understanding and empathy are either learned through exposure and/or personal experience with deep pain or challenges, or innate. Some are, some ain’t. Some can, some cain’t. That’s all I’m saying. So, does one get it? That is the question asked purely rhetorically, of course.

Edited October 20, 2021 by ThenNow

[ThenNow]

1 hour ago, Eagle1993 said:

Boy Scouts' settlement plan unjust, Arkansas victims say

https://www.nwaonline.com/news/2021/oct/20/boy-scouts-settlement-plan-unjust-victims-say/

Anyone have info on how to watch this presser?

[MYCVAStory]

Just a reminder:

The next Town Hall of the Official Committee of Tort Claimants' (the “TCC”) in the Boy Scouts of America bankruptcy cases will be held on Thursday, October 21, 2021, 8 pm (Eastern)

View Full Notice

Zoom link: https://pszjlaw.zoom.us/j/82272826295 (no registration required) 

or by phone: 888-788-0099 (toll free), Webinar ID: 822 7282 6295

To be discussed at this Town Hall:

• Trust Distribution Procedures

• Hartford Settlement and Local Council Settlement

• Solicitation Materials and Voting Ballots

• TCC’s recommendation on how to vote

[PeterHopkins]

The national director of Cub Scouting posted this on Facebook:

https://www.facebook.com/groups/cubscoutvolunteers/posts/1887714271399592

To save you from having to click through, this week's Cub Chat Live will discuss chartered partners. Some may be interested to watch how this is explained to the masses. If you cannot watch it live, they archive Cub Chat Live on Facebook.

[ThenNow]

On 10/20/2021 at 12:58 PM, ThenNow said:

On 10/20/2021 at 11:21 AM, Eagle1993 said:

Boy Scouts' settlement plan unjust, Arkansas victims say

https://www.nwaonline.com/news/2021/oct/20/boy-scouts-settlement-plan-unjust-victims-say/

Anyone have info on how to watch this presser?

Sorry. I put this over on the other bobbin when it shoulda been here. My bad. Send me to the wood shed...

Follow up from the AR press conference. Just skimmed through this. Oh, the irony. The Coalition is shielding itself behind an anon Eagle Scout who makes his case for the future of Scouting. BSA is shielding itself behind the Coalition. “See, they represent all these survivors and they like it!” Do “they”? I don’t think so. Not even the Coalition really knows who their “they” is, do they? 

https://arktimes.com/arkansas-blog/2021/10/21/as-sex-abuse-victims-consider-a-settlement-boy-scouts-of-america-weighs-in

https://arktimes.com/arkansas-blog/2021/10/20/some-arkansas-victims-of-boy-scouts-sex-abuse-scoff-at-what-they-see-as-an-insufficient-settlement-offer

[johnsch322]

546 survivors in the Larry Nasser, USA Gymnastic case get 400 million dollars of which the majority of the settlement will be funded by insurers.  Think about that in relationship to what the BSA offer is.  

[ThenNow]

1 hour ago, johnsch322 said:

546 survivors in the Larry Nasser, USA Gymnastic case get 400 million dollars of which the majority of the settlement will be funded by insurers. 

Is there a TDP-type claims matrix in the case? I’m none too familiar with the case. As in, who gets how much and based on what calculus? Or, is it Evie Stevie? 

Also, is the insurance portion an established contribution, ala Hartford’s turd or TBD as to hoped for funding?

Edited October 22, 2021 by ThenNow

[MattR]

@ThenNow please stop with the scat references.

[ThenNow]

1 hour ago, MattR said:

@ThenNow please stop with the scat references.

Oops. I forgot. Seriously. Please insert “Hoover” for all such references. If I could do a search and replace, I would. Sorry.

[MYCVAStory]

In case you haven't seen, this just dropped:

 

[skeptic]

IF, and that can be a big IF with old minds, I am reading the table correctly, over 35% of the total listed claims appear to not know where they occurred, either because they do not know the council, or it is just missing.  Also, the types of abuse, as listed, appears to have 6.7% of the total that are unknown or missing.  These figures, especially the second one, seem odd to me.  I understand time is a factor, but I would think, especially the type would not be forgotten.  Granted, if the abuse was cordonned off in their minds, it might be fuzzy; but if it is recognized, I would think it would be more than just a vague "I was abused" memory.  Not a psychologist, but it is confusing given the situation.  While the specific Council could easily be no longer in existence, the locale should give some indication as to which one it may have been.  That said, is the current council then saddled with the problem of the defunct one?  

     All of this is just another problem with trying to fix things from decades in the past.  

[johnsch322]

26 minutes ago, skeptic said:

IF, and that can be a big IF with old minds, I am reading the table correctly, over 35% of the total listed claims appear to not know where they occurred, either because they do not know the council, or it is just missing.  Also, the types of abuse, as listed, appears to have 6.7% of the total that are unknown or missing.  These figures, especially the second one, seem odd to me.  I understand time is a factor, but I would think, especially the type would not be forgotten.  Granted, if the abuse was cordonned off in their minds, it might be fuzzy; but if it is recognized, I would think it would be more than just a vague "I was abused" memory.  Not a psychologist, but it is confusing given the situation.  While the specific Council could easily be no longer in existence, the locale should give some indication as to which one it may have been.  That said, is the current council then saddled with the problem of the defunct one?  

     All of this is just another problem with trying to fix things from decades in the past.  

If you were 7 or 8 years old and now 75 to 80 and with memory becoming an issue for you (dementia) I could easily see were these things could be murky to a survivor. It doesn’t make it any less real.  In California you have to have been interviewed by a psychiatrist if you are over a certain age (I think 55) and have the psychiatrist certify that he believes you were abused.

I believe if a defunct council was absorbed by another council than yes they are liable. 

Edited October 24, 2021 by johnsch322
More info.

[mrjohns2]

1 minute ago, johnsch322 said:

I believe if a defunct council was absorbed by another council than yes they are liable. 

I know we don't want the bankruptcy to last forever, but this seems to be one of those cases of where the autonomy of councils is called into question. If one was a well funded council and was forced to merge with another by national, it seems odd that they would have to accept the liability. 

3 minutes ago, johnsch322 said:

It doesn’t make it any less real.

Correct, it doesn't make it any less real, but it does call into question any of your recollection and the facts are totally in question. If one can't articulate what happened where, the whole system falls apart.