Bankruptcy, everything but the legalese

[CynicalScouter]

32 minutes ago, 5thGenTexan said:

The BSA bankruptcy seems to be in the final phases

No, no it isn't.

It isn't even close to being in the "final phases".

33 minutes ago, 5thGenTexan said:

Current expectations are that the BSA will exit bankruptcy in the 1st quarter of 2022.

Again, not even close to reality.

[Eagle94-A1]

I got essentially the same message last nite as @5thGenTexan did, except with my council specific info. BUT from keeping up here, I know that we are no where close to the end. Winston Churchill said it best.

"Now this is not the end. It is not even the beginning of the end. But it is, perhaps, the end of the beginning."

 

 

 

[elitts]

Normally I wouldn't discuss user issues, but given his profile pic and signature I'm going to make an exception:

Regardless of the impression given by his profile picture and signature line, CynicalScouter is NOT banned from the forum, or even blocked from posting.  He merely received a 1 week penalty that requires his posts be approved by a moderator before they are visible as a result of posting behavior that was un-scoutlike and very near abusive/spamming.

[1980Scouter]

I think LC's are starting to realize the vote may not go in their favor. My LC's is doing a second round of staff downsizing. 

You can hear the desperation in some of their media posts. Like doing everything to recruit and making sure to say "everything is good with scouting to parents."

I wonder if units are doing this or being honest.

[Eagle94-A1]

3 hours ago, 1980Scouter said:

I think LC's are starting to realize the vote may not go in their favor. My LC's is doing a second round of staff downsizing. 

You can hear the desperation in some of their media posts. Like doing everything to recruit and making sure to say "everything is good with scouting to parents."

I wonder if units are doing this or being honest.

From what i am seeing, most units are not concerned with the bankruptcy.  They are focused on their units.

[malraux]

1 hour ago, Eagle94-A1 said:

From what i am seeing, most units are not concerned with the bankruptcy.  They are focused on their units.

To the extent that it matters to units right now, its about the UMC and others hesitating on recharter. At my LC they are slowly dropping DEs and other staff. Only about half the districts have a staff person at this point, one camp has no staff, etc. Without recruitment I dunno if the council will survive to the end of bankruptcy.

[1980Scouter]

8 minutes ago, malraux said:

To the extent that it matters to units right now, its about the UMC and others hesitating on recharter. At my LC they are slowly dropping DEs and other staff. Only about half the districts have a staff person at this point, one camp has no staff, etc. Without recruitment I dunno if the council will survive to the end of bankruptcy.

If it is that bad, most likely not. I think there will be ALOT of council mergers before this is over. Many were not in good shape before this mess.

[MattR]

2 hours ago, Eagle94-A1 said:

From what i am seeing, most units are not concerned with the bankruptcy.  They are focused on their units.

From what I'm seeing most units have a lot of other stuff on their plates and likely don't know about the bankruptcy. Many units are doing nothing right now. Its more about covid than bankruptcy.

[yknot]

51 minutes ago, 1980Scouter said:

If it is that bad, most likely not. I think there will be ALOT of council mergers before this is over. Many were not in good shape before this mess.

Council mergers are not necessarily a bad thing. For one, one of the ongoing issues with scouting is how variable the experience is depending on what unit and council you are in and what kind of people are involved. While 'home rule' can be good it also has its downsides. Maybe some more integration and consolidation of struggling councils into more successful ones would be good overall for scouting although maybe initially painful for those affected by it. 

[Eagle94-A1]

My concern with mergers is that council customer service will be worse than it is. And right now it is 99% non existant.  And .5% of the involvement is telling volunteers we can't do things, i.e. have a clean up day to get camp ready, doing our own roundups,  etc.

[mrjohns2]

19 hours ago, Eagle94-A1 said:

From what i am seeing, most units are not concerned with the bankruptcy.  They are focused on their units.

Agreed. Also, what would a unit do about the bankruptcy? Not much. So, as long as a couple stay a bit informed, for the most part, the units shouldn't spent energy on the bankruptcy. It would be a waste. 

[InquisitiveScouter]

8 minutes ago, mrjohns2 said:

Agreed. Also, what would a unit do about the bankruptcy? Not much. So, as long as a couple stay a bit informed, for the most part, the units shouldn't spent energy on the bankruptcy. It would be a waste. 

We were discussing the possibility of Chapter 7.  If that happens, what would we do at the unit level? The desire, at least on our part, is to continue scouting as a church sponsored youth group.  Program would be pretty much the same, minus advancement and uniforms.  The current question we are looking into is cost of insurance coverage should we forge ahead sans BSA...

[Muttsy]

6 hours ago, InquisitiveScouter said:

We were discussing the possibility of Chapter 7.  If that happens, what would we do at the unit level? The desire, at least on our part, is to continue scouting as a church sponsored youth group.  Program would be pretty much the same, minus advancement and uniforms.  The current question we are looking into is cost of insurance coverage should we forge ahead sans BSA...

I’m glad to hear this. Green shoots that scouting will survive and thrive because the dedicated unit volunteers are the heart of scouting. BSA was formed by Congress ostensibly to ensure “high standards” are met. Here we are as a result. Smaller scale scouting will allow for experimentation and differentiation in programs and risk prevention. 
 

As for insurance, you can get it but it won’t cover sexual abuse. Those exclusions are near universal now. Knowing of the risk exposure makes people and organizations more careful which is a good thing. 

[ThenNow]

7 hours ago, fred8033 said:

What additional acknowledgement / apology is expected ? 

I think I answered this with flourish during and after Michael Johnson’s statement at the press conference, but I’ll run it back. What Mr. Johnson DID, as a critical and even more valuable addition to what he said, demonstrated what a heartfelt apology is. It’s human. It has skin on it. It sheds tears. It shows remorse and grief and sorrow and empathy. It is not a press release or published interview or newsletter. That’s what did not happen and we doubt ever will. If you don’t get it, you probably won’t. The next time you very deeply hurt someone for whom you profess deep love, commitment and dedication write a note in the daily Gazette for them to find. Don’t ever say anything that exhibits vulnerability or contrition live and in person. Ouch. 

[InquisitiveScouter]

All these "apologies" came out in the midst of or after the bankruptcy declaration.  They have an air (to me) of coercion in them...as if they were driven by lawyers and PR specialists, rather than a genuine sincerity.

I suppose that is the nail-head...sincerity.  Michael Johnson's words and actions expressed some sincerity.  I have seen no other demonstrations of sincerity on the part of BSA.  And, if MJ is to be believed, the "organization" is still not sincere, as (again, if his claims are accurate) they 1) excluded their National Director of Youth Protection from discussions and decisions about child abuse cases, 2) withheld information from him on child abuses cases/statistics, 3) Laid off their National Director of Youth Protection whilst their bankruptcy (driven by child abuse claims) is ongoing, and 4) continue an organizational inertia to resist making changes to enhance youth protection and prevent child abuse. 

 

Edited October 20, 2021 by RememberSchiff
by request of OP