Bankruptcy, everything but the legalese

[CynicalScouter]

3 minutes ago, fred8033 said:

Good point LDS left. So Utah probably doesn't need as many camps. ... The question is whether the LCs in Utah have signed up for the agreement as I bet their SOLs won't re-open.

All 250+ councils have signed on

[fred8033]

1 minute ago, CynicalScouter said:

Yeah, BSA is really, really clear: it isn't coming back to 2 million and they'd be shocked if it reached 1 million.

 

Wow.  Thank you.  That is very helpful.  

Please forgive this view as it's just my thoughts.  A great evil was done before.  Now, we are doing another evil (charging future kids more) to pay for a past evil.  This is just ugliness on top of ugliness.  I guess it's like the old saying that when things get dirty, no one comes out clean.  

[CynicalScouter]

1 minute ago, johnsch322 said:

Pennies on the dollar being offered by BSA, LC’s Participating CO’s and insurance companies to abuse victims. And yes that includes me. If it included you or your child what would be your reaction?

I'm curious to see the answer to this question.

Pennies on the dollar isn't fair when everyone else is walking away, at worst, with 75%.

[fred8033]

4 minutes ago, CynicalScouter said:

All 250+ councils have signed on

At low levels.  If the contribution amounts are kicked up, those without current or probably liability, ... would they stay in the agreement? 

I did not think all 250+ had agreed to contribute.

Edited October 11, 2021 by fred8033

[HelpfulTracks]

4 minutes ago, johnsch322 said:

Pennies on the dollar being offered by BSA, LC’s Participating CO’s and insurance companies to abuse victims. And yes that includes me. If it included you or your child what would be your reaction?

If it had been me or my children, I would likely have a very different legal issue to deal with.

[CynicalScouter]

4 minutes ago, fred8033 said:

I did not think all 250+ had agreed to contribute.

Yes, they all did pages 299-303

https://casedocs.omniagentsolutions.com/cmsvol2/pub_47373/da60d7ce-df85-45e9-9737-4dd1a5d50014_6445.pdf

EXHIBIT C
EXPECTED LOCAL COUNCIL SETTLEMENT TRUST CONTRIBUTIONS

Quote

As of the date of the filing of this Disclosure Statement, all Local Councils have submitted letters of intent reflecting each Local Council’s intent to contribute the amounts listed on this schedule.

 

Edited October 11, 2021 by CynicalScouter

[CynicalScouter]

3 minutes ago, HelpfulTracks said:

If it had been me or my children, I would likely have a very different legal issue to deal with.

You did not answer the question:

 

9 minutes ago, johnsch322 said:

Pennies on the dollar being offered by BSA, LC’s Participating CO’s and insurance companies to abuse victims. And yes that includes me. If it included you or your child what would be your reaction?

 

[johnsch322]

1 minute ago, HelpfulTracks said:

If it had been me or my children, I would likely have a very different legal issue to deal with.

I understand your drift. But if it happened to you at the age of 13 you would have been confused, ashamed, and most likely in denial. So 50 years later you are now dealing with it and being offered pennies on the dollar. What now?

[HelpfulTracks]

1 minute ago, CynicalScouter said:

You did not answer the question:

You not liking the answer does not negate the fact I did answer. 

[CynicalScouter]

10 minutes ago, fred8033 said:

At low levels.  If the contribution amounts are kicked up, those without current or probably liability, ... would they stay in the agreement?

This is going to be key.

Even at a mere $500 million, several councils merged and lots of councils have put camps and other property on the seller's block.

Just wait until Plan 5.5. fails, overwhelmingly, and the TCC comes back to the LCs demanding $1.5 billion. My guess: councils start to bail out of the deal and take their chances in court or hope the statute of limitations never reopens.

[HelpfulTracks]

4 minutes ago, johnsch322 said:

I understand your drift. But if it happened to you at the age of 13 you would have been confused, ashamed, and most likely in denial. So 50 years later you are now dealing with it and being offered pennies on the dollar. What now?

It might not be what you want to hear, but no I would not have felt that way. 

At 13 I had already had to stand my ground against physical threats from adults. But, I also realize I was not a typical 13 year old. 

Moderators, can you just close this thread. The original topic is just being ignored and the the current post belong in one of the many threads already started.

We are just fragmenting those threads by continuing this one, besides now this one belongs in Issues and Politics not Open Discussion

[johnsch322]

30 minutes ago, HelpfulTracks said:

It might not be what you want to hear, but no I would not have felt that way. 

At 13 I had already had to stand my ground against physical threats from adults. But, I also realize I was not a typical 13 year old. 

Moderators, can you just close this thread. The original topic is just being ignored and the the current post belong in one of the many threads already started.

We are just fragmenting those threads by continuing this one, besides now this one belongs in Issues and Politics not Open Discussion

You don’t know how you would have reacted because it didn’t happen to you.  At the age of 13 I could stand up to almost anyone.  But as I asked if it had happened to you how would you feel if 50 years later you are being offered pennies on the dollar  

 

 

[CynicalScouter]

1 minute ago, johnsch322 said:

But as I asked if it had happened to you how would you feel if 50 years later you are being offered pennies on the dollar  

And the fact that he is still dodging the question tells you what his answer is.

You've made your point, and his silence and dodging has made his position clear and how he feels about victims being offered pennies on the dollar by BSA.

[HelpfulTracks]

1 hour ago, johnsch322 said:

You don’t know how you would have reacted because it didn’t happen to you.  At the age of 13 I could stand up to almost anyone.  But as I asked if it had happened to you how would you feel if 50 years later you are being offered pennies on the dollar  

Before you asked any question you told me how I would have reacted if it had happened to me. I quote "if it happened to you at the age of 13 you would have been confused, ashamed, and most likely in denial."

I told you that I did not think that would be how things went. And it was not a rhetorical answer. I had to defend myself physically from attack. So I do know. 

But somehow you know me better than myself, to quote you "You don’t know how you would have reacted because it didn’t happen to you."

There are a lot of hypothetical questions that come before yours if someone had tried to molest me at 13.  

SO how about we avoid hypotheticals, particularly when you want to both ask and answer the question. 

1 hour ago, CynicalScouter said:

And the fact that he is still dodging the question tells you what his answer is.

.....his silence and dodging has made his position clear and how he feels about victims being offered pennies on the dollar by BSA.

Your logical gymnastics you have to do to come up with your conclusions is as amazing as it is faulty. 

A hypothetical question about how I would feel, that does not get a response you deem valid, do not mean I don't think the victims deserve compensation. 

So, even though I have said it numerous times (and I am sure it won't sink through to you this time either).

• I believe victims SHOULD be compensated 
• I believe victims SHOULD get just compensation
• I also believe that scouting is a program that SHOULD continue because it does good for youth
• It would be marvelous if ALL of those SHOULDs could come true, but I don't know anyone that thinks that is possible. 
• So I will continue to advocate to keep the Scouting program going 
• And I will advocate for victims that get the best possible compensation possible, that also keeps the scouting program going. 

 

[johnsch322]

38 minutes ago, HelpfulTracks said:

Before you asked any question you told me how I would have reacted if it had happened to me. I quote "if it happened to you at the age of 13 you would have been confused, ashamed, and most likely in denial."

I told you that I did not think that would be how things went. And it was not a rhetorical answer. I had to defend myself physically from attack. So I do know. 

But somehow you know me better than myself, to quote you "You don’t know how you would have reacted because it didn’t happen to you."

There are a lot of hypothetical questions that come before yours if someone had tried to molest me at 13.  

SO how about we avoid hypotheticals, particularly when you want to both ask and answer the question. 

Your logical gymnastics you have to do to come up with your conclusions is as amazing as it is faulty. 

A hypothetical question about how I would feel, that does not get a response you deem valid, do not mean I don't think the victims deserve compensation. 

So, even though I have said it numerous times (and I am sure it won't sink through to you this time either).

• I believe victims SHOULD be compensated 
• I believe victims SHOULD get just compensation
• I also believe that scouting is a program that SHOULD continue because it does good for youth
• It would be marvelous if ALL of those SHOULDs could come true, but I don't know anyone that thinks that is possible. 
• So I will continue to advocate to keep the Scouting program going 
• And I will advocate for victims that get the best possible compensation possible, that also keeps the scouting program going. 

 

So do you believe that pennies on the dollar is just compensation and how are you advocating to get victims the best possible compensation?

PS this is a non hypothetical question. 

Edited October 11, 2021 by johnsch322