Bankruptcy, everything but the legalese

[ThenNow]

3 hours ago, CynicalScouter said:

I don't think a TCC plan is a panacea either.

I see no panacea in sight and said nothing of the sort. I’m just tired of BSA’s flailing and luffing and whiffing and pandering. Enough already. Puh-lease. 

Edited September 14, 2021 by ThenNow

[ThenNow]

3 hours ago, MYCVAStory said:

If the TCC files a motion to end plan exclusivity, right after any new plan is announced, it's pretty much guaranteed that it has its own plan locked and loaded to be filed as soon as the judge accepts its motion.

Betting odds, anyone? I can put up my Skill Awards collection, several vintage and rare OA pocket flap patches, a 12-year old’s personally carved woggle and an early 70’s Wolf Cub Scout Book sans the pages on tying a necktie. (I trashed them in frustration. No one would teach me and I kept failing utterly.) 

Edited September 14, 2021 by ThenNow

[MYCVAStory]

34 minutes ago, ThenNow said:

Betting odds, anyone? I can put up my Skill Awards collection, several vintage and rare OA pocket flap patches, a 12-year old’s personally carved woggle and an early 70’s Wolf Cub Scout Book sans the pages on tying a necktie. (I trashed them in frustration. No one would teach me and I kept failing utterly.) 

Hmmmm....since it was my suggestion that the TCC just might file a motion to end plan exclusivity so it can file its own plan I'll see your rare OA flap and raise you a rusted metal kneckerchief slide and that sweaty "Guardian Angels" red beret we had to wear for a while 🙂

 

[CynicalScouter]

9 minutes ago, MYCVAStory said:

TCC just might file a motion to end plan exclusivity so it can file its own plan

Does it even need to do that or can it just let the clock run out? My understanding is that by law (11 U.S. Code § 1121  not just a court rule) exclusivity can NOT extend beyond 18 months from date of petition filing, which in this case is October 18.

Why not just let the clock run out? It would take 30 days to get a hearing on a motion to end exclusivity anyway

[MYCVAStory]

6 minutes ago, CynicalScouter said:

Does it even need to do that or can it just let the clock run out? My understanding is that by law (11 U.S. Code § 1121  not just a court rule) exclusivity can NOT extend beyond 18 months from date of petition filing, which in this case is October 18.

Why not just let the clock run out? It would take 30 days to get a hearing on a motion to end exclusivity anyway

A hearing can be requested prior to 30 days.  It may make sense to end exclusivity quickly before people start believing all the "Settlement reached" headlines for a plan not supported.

[ThenNow]

26 minutes ago, MYCVAStory said:

Hmmmm....since it was my suggestion that the TCC just might file a motion to end plan exclusivity so it can file its own plan I'll see your rare OA flap and raise you a rusted metal kneckerchief slide and that sweaty "Guardian Angels" red beret we had to wear for a while 🙂

Let’s see. Do we retain the goods or ante up? Got any mint condition garters and tabs? 

Edited September 14, 2021 by ThenNow

[CynicalScouter]

20 minutes ago, MYCVAStory said:

A hearing can be requested prior to 30 days.  It may make sense to end exclusivity quickly before people start believing all the "Settlement reached" headlines for a plan not supported.

Here's a hint: people already believe it. That ship has sailed and sunk. And with only about 30 days left on the exclusivity, I can easily see the judge especially this judge saying she's not inclined to cut BSA off at the knees after what I am sure will be BSA's briefs indicating they are hard at work negotiating and that they just need a little more time and why the rush exclusivity will expire on October 18 anyway, etc.

Given how this judge has slow walked this entire thing, I don't see her deciding now to cut off exclusivity for the sake of (at BEST) 2-3 weeks. We are 34 days out from exclusivity ending. Even if the TCC filed a motion TODAY, NOW, AS I TYPE to end exclusivity early, there will be a demand for a hearing date and briefing. That takes us to at best, the September 21 hearing (which it is now clear is not going to happen but could be I guess converted into a hearing on the motion to end exclusivity) and that is if there is an amazingly fast briefing schedule which you know BSA will opposed passionately.

Moreover, as I read it, termination can only happen for "cause" and courts have indicated that there debtors can show they are making progress that weighs against "cause". BSA will point to what it already has pointed to: the RSA proves progress is being made, etc.

Quote

Some courts review nine factors when determining whether to terminate
the exclusive periods. See In re Dow Corning Corp., 208 B.R. 661, 664 (Bankr. E.D. Mich.
1997) (citing In re Express One Int’l, 194 B.R. 98, 100 (Bankr .E.D. Tex. 1996)). These factors
are: (a) the size and complexity of the case, (b) the necessity of sufficient time to permit the
debtor to negotiate a plan of reorganization and prepare adequate information, (c) the existence
of good faith progress toward reorganization, (d) the fact that the debtor is paying its bills as they
become due, (e) whether the debtor has demonstrated reasonable prospects for filing a viable plan, (f) whether the debtor has made progress in negotiations with its creditors, (g) the amount
of time which has elapsed in the case, (h) whether the debtor is seeking an extension of the
exclusive periods in order to pressure creditors to submit to the debtor’s reorganization demands,
and (i) whether an unresolved contingency exists. Dow Corning Corp., 208 B.R. at 664-65.

So, in not so short, I don't see TCC wasting its time and energy filing such a motion and even if they did I don't see this particular judge granting it.

[grizzly702]

So this just came out. 

https://www.sharecast.com/news/market_reports/press-release-the-hartford-announces-new-agreement-in-principle-with-boy-scouts-of-america-and-majority-of-claimants--8090440.html

Press Release: The Hartford Announces New Agreement-In-Principle With Boy Scouts Of America And Majority Of Claimants

$787 million.

Here is the MSN/Reuters link

 Hartford Financial to pay $787 million in Boy Scouts sex abuse insurance settlements http://a.msn.com/01/en-us/AAOrmyK?ocid=se

Edited September 14, 2021 by grizzly702
added Reuters

[CynicalScouter]

Replied in other thread.

Edited September 14, 2021 by CynicalScouter

[MYCVAStory]

1 hour ago, CynicalScouter said:

So, in not so short, I don't see TCC wasting its time and energy filing such a motion and even if they did I don't see this particular judge granting it.

Perhaps.  But if the TCC files a motion it will be interesting to see the law cited.  This judge does like to follow precedent.

[ThenNow]

I have no clue whatsoever where to put this. Maybe it’s here? Maybe it’s not? Maybe nowhere? Maybe it doesn’t matter anymore? I can assure you, there’s no legalese and it relates to this Chapter 11. Specifically, its impact on a victim claimant such as I. So that aside, here’s an update on what this process means to me. I would say it can serve as my start of the year report on, “How I spent my summer vacation,” but I spent two on this mess and lots of months in between. To be exact, 1 year, 6 months and 27 lovely days has BSA Chapter 11. 

So, given my mental, physical and psychological state over the past 574 days, my trauma therapist insisted we do updated testing to determine if I am still in the land of the living or swinging wide toward vapor. The tests I took are noted below. They are pretty fun. You should try a handful sometime. Long story not quite short, this dealio we’re in the midst of landed me on George Jetson’s treadmill. I am vigorously engaged, but slip sliding in retrograde motion. I’ve moved from the Recovery Phase to the Acute (Emergency) Phase of PTSD. WooHoo! Back to the future all over again. If anyone wonders what this is doing to the victims, now you know with sprinkles on top. Cheers. The End.

UPPS-Impulsivity scale

SADS-Social Avoidance and Distress Scale

PCL-PTSD Checklist

K10-Kessler Distress Scale

GAD-Generalized Anxiety Disorder Scale

FMPS-Frost Multidimensional Perfectionism Scale

ECR-Experience in Close Relationships Scale

DUDIT-Drug Use Disorders Identification Test 

DES-II-Dissociative Experiences Scale

DERS-Difficulties in Emotion Regulation Scale

DASS-Depression Anxiety Stress Scale

MMPI-3- Minnesota Multiphasic Personality Inventory

SCID-V-Structured Clinical Interview for DSM Disorders

Edited September 14, 2021 by ThenNow

[Eagle1993]

LDS $250M

https://www.reuters.com/world/us/hartford-pay-787-million-boy-scouts-sex-abuse-insurance-deal-2021-09-14/

[fred8033]

Taking out of ruling channel ... I'll be crossing line between the ruling and general chat.

41 minutes ago, CynicalScouter said:

I really, really think this is a big deal. It addresses BSA's point that as far as they are concerned they NEVER agreed to cover COs prior to 1974-1976 time frame.

It also is interesting about number of claims. I know at one point there was a chart listing abuse claims by year, but I'd be curious how many were pre-1975 vs. post. I seem to recall about 50% of claims being pre and 50% post around then.

Really important point being addressed.  Drastic changes have happened over the last 50 years ... even over the last 20 years.  

BSA did not insure COs before 1970s because ... no one bought that type of insurance.  Back then, companies were just starting to take liability insurance in case someone tripped on your sidewalk or if you didn't shovel your sidewalk enough.

Further, CO and BSA in 1970s really would have been extremely hard pressed to take that type of liability insurance seriously.  Their then eyes seeing today's situation would cause them to think the world went crazy.  From a 1970s perspective, it is inconceivable that you would need liability coverage 20+/30+/40+/50+ years down the road ... for massive judgements ... for something people questioned the impact (THEN) ... for something most did not want to report or be associated with ... for something viewed as a criminal action (if laws existed to make it a crime) ... for something outside the scope of their roles ... for something done by a volunteer  ... for an effective honorary charter agreement.

FUTURE OF INSURANCE ... I've read a few articles on the future of insurance.  It sounds rather bleak, but a great area to earn money in and a great area to sue.

         https://www.propertycasualty360.com/2017/04/13/10-emerging-developments-in-liability-insurance/

Will large companies like GM/GE/BP/3M become ill advised as over 40/50/60 years future trends could cause their value to be destroyed in a single few legal cases?  What about insurance for them?  Will GM be bankrupted for in 20 years for causing global warming?  ... Seriously !!!  

QUESTION ... I'd like to better understand the legal state of insurance from the 1970s / 1980s.  Just because a company can have expired SOL given new life, does that mean the insurance policies are open ended too?  The contract between BSA and the insurance company was based on a point-in-time contract basis. 

So BSA's liability could be extended, but does that automatically extend the insurance companies liability policy?  I'm betting there will be future cases on this one.  It's one thing to extend liability of one company. It's another to re-write the contract between two companies.  ... ugly interesting future

https://uk.practicallaw.thomsonreuters.com/8-518-2251?transitionType=Default&contextData=(sc.Default)&firstPage=true

 

 

 

Edited September 15, 2021 by fred8033

[fred8033]

Reading CNN ... always a regret but it's a short URL ... On CNN I read more about the gymnastics hearings at the capital.  It's an interesting read considering following BSA's case for many years now.

https://www.cnn.com/politics/live-news/larry-nassar-senate-hearing-09-15-21/h_0b79bc8905cc46df9e2f7db83b3a38e9

[johnsch322]

From Congressional testimony concerning USA Gymnastics,

"From the very beginning when I was reporting my abuse to Steve Penny … from the very beginning, Steve Penny kept telling my mom and I that the most important thing was to keep things confidential. The most important thing was to give McKayla Maroney breathing room. He was trying to make sure we weren’t talking about it. It seemed like his biggest concern all along was this wasn’t going to get out. It was never ‘How are you feeling, what can we do to help you?’" Raisman said.

Doesn't this also sound like the Boy Scouts?