Bankruptcy, everything but the legalese

[PeterHopkins]

1 hour ago, CynicalScouter said:

if nothing else you’ve just proven my point: only the select elite few who are allowed access to private groups (FB) are allowed to get information while everybody else is told to go away.

I did say that I agree with your point. If this is the primary means of communicationing with the national Cub Scouting director, then we ought to see something on the BSA website that tells us so,

I wasn't trying to prove or disprove your point. I would say that you simply made it more strongly than is merited. I don't know whether there is the same level of engagement in Scouts BSA, Venturing or Sea Scouting as there is in Cub Scouting. That coulld be because there isn't such engagement, or because I am currently serving as a Cubmaster and not focused on the other programs.

Membership in the group is routinely granted upon request. They will kick out those who egregiously fail to observe the Scout Oath and Law. My uess is that the requirement to request membership is primarily to prevent those who have been kicked out form returning and to give the administrators the ability to kick people out in the first place. It is hard to imagine a group with 23,000 members being properly characterized as "select elite few".

[CynicalScouter]

I was in my local scout store Saturday snagging supplies when a dad/den leader and his Cub Scout were buying materials and had a question about whether Webelos First AND Second Year could be wearing the Tan uniform shirt. As they were talking the dad/den leader said (almost verbatim) "We held off on buying until we knew that the bankruptcy was over. Now that they got that settlement I guess I need to start to get [pointing at son] him ready for crossover."

I know similar comments/questions came through during the last TCC Town Hall and Stang addressed how the "settlement" wasn't REALLY a settlement after the judge failed to agree to striking the Hartford deal and declined to authorizing the Coalition payments.

The media report/headline about "settlement reached" was premature and is getting people way, way too excited. Yes, in the end, I believe BSA will get out of bankruptcy, but I get the feeling SOME folks on the ground are misunderstanding what is going on. If this drags out into 2022 (which every indication is it will) and results in LOTS of COs leaving (which it already has) people are going to get even more confused: "I thought they had a deal."

[ThenNow]

1 hour ago, CynicalScouter said:

The media report/headline about "settlement reached" was premature and is getting people way, way too excited.

I’m sorry, but it is in no way appropriate to hang this on the media. As I’ve said since the Mosby statement, where in the heck are the wordsmiths, message massagers and semantic engineers? Good grief. Read the last line, in particular that double ‘r’ couplet:

The agreement filed in court by BSA attorneys late Thursday would mark one of the largest sums in U.S. history involving cases of sexual abuse. The filing, known as a restructuring support agreement, includes the BSA, abuse victims, local Boy Scouts councils and lawyers appointed to represent victims who might file future claims.

“After months of intensive negotiations, the debtors have reached resolution with every single official and major creditor constituency,” BSA attorneys wrote.

https://apnews.com/article/boy-scouts-of-america-business-d945e210108b8af1b593c43910aae4c7

Edited September 13, 2021 by ThenNow

[CynicalScouter]

40 minutes ago, ThenNow said:

I’m sorry, but it is in no way appropriate to hang this on the media.

It sorta is. The headlines and such all read "settlement reached" after the judge's actions. It was NOT an accurate refelction at all. To paraphrase Kosnoff: it was a 3 legged stool judge cut off two major legs. It was only later reporting days later (and far too late) that really indicated this was only at best a partial agreement. I think Stang put it, this is an "approved agreement" like "bought a car" with no engine, no doors, and no axles, and no wheels.

[ThenNow]

13 minutes ago, CynicalScouter said:

The headlines and such all read "settlement reached" after the judge's actions.

“Reached” was used by both BSA counsel and the media. That leaves “settlement” vs “resolution.” Whatever you say...

Settlement - “an official agreement intended to resolve a dispute or conflict.”

Resolution - “the action of solving a problem, dispute, or contentious matter.”

They need to learn to use words like tentative, conditional, subject to and pending official approval. This is not rocket science. “DEWEY DEFEATS TRUMAN!” Whoops. Never mind. 

Edited September 13, 2021 by ThenNow

[MYCVAStory]

It's fair to

24 minutes ago, ThenNow said:

They need to learn to use words like tentative, conditional, subject to and pending official approval. This is not rocket science. “DEWEY DEFEATS TRUMAN!” Whoops. Never mind. 

Absolutely.  Anticipate the next BSA plan soon if history holds to form.  Then we'll see if the Coalition signs on to get its bills paid since the judge said "nice try."  Then...a good barometer of whether this is as much as mediation could produce, or not, is whether the TCC signs on too or says "NO WAY" and signals its plan is on its way.

 

[CynicalScouter]

59 minutes ago, MYCVAStory said:

Then...a good barometer of whether this is as much as mediation could produce, or not, is whether the TCC signs on too or says "NO WAY" and signals its plan is on its way.

Or, to anticipate Kosnoff, unless the new plan is valued at “everything that BSA and every LC owns”, TCC approval does not equal “as much as mediation could produce” but “proof once again the TCC has sold out victims.”

[MYCVAStory]

Just now, CynicalScouter said:

Or, to anticipate Kosnoff, unless the new plan is valued at “everything that BSA and every LC owns”, TCC approval does not equal “as much as mediation could produce” but “proof once again the TCC has sold out victims.”

Of course!  But like my mother always said "Consider the source."

[Eagle94-A1]

59 minutes ago, CynicalScouter said:

Or, to anticipate Kosnoff, unless the new plan is valued at “everything that BSA and every LC owns”, TCC approval does not equal “as much as mediation could produce” but “proof once again the TCC has sold out victims.”

 

57 minutes ago, MYCVAStory said:

Of course!  But like my mother always said "Consider the source."

Yep, consider the source. For Kosnoff, anything but the complete dissolution of the BSA and local council will be considered a "sell out."

[ThenNow]

15 hours ago, MYCVAStory said:

Then...a good barometer of whether this is as much as mediation could produce, or not, is whether the TCC signs on too or says "NO WAY" and signals its plan is on its way.

I don't know about all y'all, but I'm pretty much beyond ready for, "NO WAY" followed by "its plan is on the way." Let's have someone else drive the Exxon Valdez. We're within spitting distance of midnight and I think I see Bligh Reef on the radar. Still time to avoid disaster. Well, not so much, but you feel me. 

[CynicalScouter]

19 minutes ago, ThenNow said:

I don't know about all y'all, but I'm pretty much beyond ready for, "NO WAY" followed by "its plan is on the way." Let's have someone else drive the Exxon Valdez. We're within spitting distance of midnight and I think I see Bligh Reef on the radar. Still time to avoid disaster. Well, not so much, but you feel me. 

I don't think a TCC plan is a panacea either. I think the Kosnoff/burn it all down contingent of victims and lawyers is enough to scuttle any plan/fail to get 2/3rds.

[qwazse]

16 hours ago, ThenNow said:

“Reached” was used by both BSA counsel and the media. That leaves “settlement” vs “resolution.” Whatever you say...

Settlement - “an official agreement intended to resolve a dispute or conflict.”

Resolution - “the action of solving a problem, dispute, or contentious matter.”

They need to learn to use words like tentative, conditional, subject to and pending official approval. This is not rocket science. “DEWEY DEFEATS TRUMAN!” Whoops. Never mind. 

If you want to gripe about this organization's marketing doublespeak, you'll have to take a number behind a formidable list of parties. Case in point: at no time has BSA touted a sex-segregated program with the same awards and recognition for all, yet here we are.

[Eagle1993]

21 minutes ago, CynicalScouter said:

I don't think a TCC plan is a panacea either. I think the Kosnoff/burn it all down contingent of victims and lawyers is enough to scuttle any plan/fail to get 2/3rds.

To be fair, we have NO idea what he will recommend when it comes to the actual vote.  You must consider that negotiations are ongoing when any party (BSA, collation, TCC, Kosnoff, insurance companies) makes statements in public.  Kosnoff has been following the case closely and knows the judge will do everything possible to prevent BSA from filing CH7.  So, I'm not 100% convinced he will ask his claimants to vote against the deal if he knows the alternate is worse for him and the victims he represents.  I'm sure he will state its the Coalition and/or TCC's fault, but I am not yet sold that he will reject any non CH7 deal.  I'm also not 100% convinced the TCC will sign off on the deal if BSA has one with the Coalition.  Time will tell and even when a deal comes out, you may be right, it could fail to get 2/3rds.

[MYCVAStory]

10 minutes ago, Eagle1993 said:

  I'm also not 100% convinced the TCC will sign off on the deal if BSA has one with the Coalition.

If the TCC files a motion to end plan exclusivity, right after any new plan is announced, it's pretty much guaranteed that it has its own plan locked and loaded to be filed as soon as the judge accepts its motion.

[CynicalScouter]

5 minutes ago, MYCVAStory said:

If the TCC files a motion to end plan exclusivity, right after any new plan is announced, it's pretty much guaranteed that it has its own plan locked and loaded to be filed as soon as the judge accepts its motion.

The way it sounded (again sounded) was just before the RSA got filed and they were talking about this, Stang said he could have a plan in two weeks.

Moreover, at the last Town Hall, Stang talked about how all sides had gone their own way.

I would guess that the TCC has a plan already and it is what they offered BSA when they were negotiating the RSA and that with some minor date/time and similar minor modifications is ready to go now.