Why did BSA make Cub Scouting more expensive?

[SiouxRanger]

5 hours ago, Eagledad said:

Or start with a precourse test to check your knowledge. 70% rewards you by skipping the course.

A great practical idea, but I suspect that BSA's insurers will want documentation that every covered scouter sat through and passed the BSA (and insurer) approved YPT training.

Sadly, what was once so simple, is now so complicated.

[Ojoman]

8 hours ago, SiouxRanger said:

what was once so simple is now so complicated...

These days it's as much about protecting the organization as protecting the kids. With billions of dollars in settlement through the bankruptcy we made dozens of law firms and their lawyers rich, many are now millionaires. Where there are assets there are predatory lawyers... 

[cmd]

11 minutes ago, Ojoman said:

These days it's as much about protecting the organization as protecting the kids. With billions of dollars in settlement through the bankruptcy we made dozens of law firms and their lawyers rich, many are now millionaires. Where there are assets there are predatory lawyers... 

Unfortunately, protecting the organization is also the route to protecting resources like our camps.  Future scouts have lost so many treasures in my area over the last two years to pay for crimes of scouters who are long gone. 

I'm glad they take youth protection seriously.  I just wish the way they do it seemed a little more well-reasoned.

[Ojoman]

I never thought that the BSA did a good job in dealing with the lawsuits. 90 % of the claims were over 30 years old. The BSA executives generally were dealing with 2nd and 3rd hand information and there were no mandatory reporting laws, national background checks and/or protections for those that reported from defamation suits. It was a different time and those claims should have been made against the perps or their estates, not the BSA. I know the lengths that the BSA went to with their ineligible volunteer files (prior to national background checks) to protect kids and the BSA. We did more than probably any other agency. To day it angers me that this happened is an understatement. There may have been a few instances where we should have paid but not over 80,000 and not to the tune of billions of dollars. It was just easier to target and blame the BSA and go for one big bag of cash instead of go after the criminals and have to collect thousands of small claims. Those are the kinds of lawyers that give the good ones a bad name. 

[SiouxRanger]

I have wondered why ALL the councils (and maybe there were a few which did not, and anyone who knows, please post) got on board to contribute in the amounts determined by National to the Settlement Fund though being, in the words of National, "independent not for profits" from National and not under National's control.

My council has virtually no exposure to abuse claims, as near as I can tell (lawyer), yet it sold off 1/4 of its only camp to a buyer which logged it immediately. A sad and tragic event. Some of that land was donated for the use of Scouts.

In the words of "Carson the Butler" of Downton Abbey, "Why would that be?"

And now I have a suggestion of insight:  Long rumored that post bankruptcy National will consolidate councils reducing from 210, more or less, to 80 more or less. About 130 Council Executives will lose their jobs.  In my council, that is about a $310,000 annual salary and benefit package. (And each of those Council Executives has every financial reason to vie for their Council's survival

And, considering that ALL Council Executives have to be approved by National (Yeah, Gates video on 'Council Guidance' notwithstanding), ALL Council Executives owe their JOBS to the largess and whims of National.

And therein "lies the rub." (not sure of the attribution of the concept-perhaps my friend ThenNow can help).

Perhaps all of the "independent" council executives are acting to protect their lucrative council executive jobs by supporting National's demand for contribution to the settlement fund.

"I want to be one of the 80 Council Executives to survive the consolidation of councils."

And so, perhaps, "The Fix Is In."

Edited February 5, 2023 by SiouxRanger
Inadvertent key stroke

[MattR]

Hey all, let's get back to cub scouts. There are other threads about the bankruptcy.

[InquisitiveScouter]

7 hours ago, SiouxRanger said:

And now I have a suggestion of insight:  Long rumored that post bankruptcy National will consolidate councils reducing from 210, more or less, to 80 more or less. About 130 Council Executives will lose their jobs.  In my council, that is about a $310,000 annual salary and benefit package. (And each of those Council Executives has every financial reason to vie for their Council's survival

And, considering that ALL Council Executives have to be approved by National (Yeah, Gates video on 'Council Guidance' notwithstanding), ALL Council Executives owe their JOBS to the largess and whims of National.

And therein "lies the rub." (not sure of the attribution of the concept-perhaps my friend ThenNow can help).

Perhaps all of the "independent" council executives are acting to protect their lucrative council executive jobs by supporting National's demand for contribution to the settlement fund.

This is the cancer that has eaten BSA away...

[Delphinus]

18 hours ago, SiouxRanger said:

I have wondered why ALL the councils (and maybe there were a few which did not, and anyone who knows, please post) got on board to contribute in the amounts determined by National to the Settlement Fund though being, in the words of National, "independent not for profits" from National and not under National's control.

My council has virtually no exposure to abuse claims, as near as I can tell (lawyer), yet it sold off 1/4 of its only camp to a buyer which logged it immediately. A sad and tragic event. Some of that land was donated for the use of Scouts.

In the words of "Carson the Butler" of Downton Abbey, "Why would that be?"

And now I have a suggestion of insight:  Long rumored that post bankruptcy National will consolidate councils reducing from 210, more or less, to 80 more or less. About 130 Council Executives will lose their jobs.  In my council, that is about a $310,000 annual salary and benefit package. (And each of those Council Executives has every financial reason to vie for their Council's survival

And, considering that ALL Council Executives have to be approved by National (Yeah, Gates video on 'Council Guidance' notwithstanding), ALL Council Executives owe their JOBS to the largess and whims of National.

And therein "lies the rub." (not sure of the attribution of the concept-perhaps my friend ThenNow can help).

Perhaps all of the "independent" council executives are acting to protect their lucrative council executive jobs by supporting National's demand for contribution to the settlement fund.

"I want to be one of the 80 Council Executives to survive the consolidation of councils."

And so, perhaps, "The Fix Is In."

$310K for a council executive!? Yikes. And we wonder why they show up at Blue & Gold each year, hijack the meeting, and put the high-pressure sales pitch on the parents to then donate even MORE money to the "Friends of Scouting" campaign. It all makes sense now. 

[Eagle1993]

Look at this cost structure.  $340 per year in Crossroads of America.  Seems a bit steep..

 

[Navybone]

3 minutes ago, Eagle1993 said:

Look at this cost structure.  $340 per year in Crossroads of America.  Seems a bit steep..

 

That is an insane jump.  How are they selling the monthly adventure fee -  does it guarantee anything specific or a service? 

[Eagle94-A1]

If this chart shows what is coming next year. I fear my troop will die, as will most units in my area.  We are in an economically disadvantage area. Many families are  lower class. Over 1/2 my troop is on some type of assistance to remain registered, and the remaining family can barely afford Scouting as it is. Glad one will age out, and the other just earned Eagle, pending national approval. 

As for the $240 Adventure Fee, is that to pay for a monthly camp out at a council camp? WE can get it cheaper per person going to other, more adventurous places.

[Eagle1993]

Petition · Prevent the Decimation of Membership of Local BSA unit in Crossroads of America · Change.org

Quote

 

Our local council, the Crossroads of America "CAC" is about to destroy scouting membership in central Indiana with the new "MODERNIZING FEE STRUCTURE FOR SCOUTING" for 2024 (See the attached image).

Total individual Scout Fee paid to the Council for Annual Recharter (Does not include unit fee) --176% Increase
2023 - $87
2024  - $240
Breakdown of Scout Fees
National -- 0% change (so far) (per member)
2023 -  $75
2024 - $75
Council Fee -- 1275% Increase (per member)
2023 -  $12
2024 - $165
New Registration Fee -- 300% Increase (per member)
2023 -  $25
2024 - $100
Unit Recharter Fee (ex. a unit of 20 memeber is $5 per member)
2023 -  $100
2024 - $0
In this uncertain economic environment, corporations are practicing degrees of fiscal responsibility to survive what could be an upcoming recession by reducing spending while keeping the most value to their customers in order to survive.  "CAC" however, has recently been on a hiring and spending spree.  This council has grown now to over 55 scout executives, expanding roles into multiple individuals, whereas other local businesses are combining roles and unfortunately reducing headcount.  The increase in hiring was even brought up as a positive aspect at our council's Governor's Luncheon last December, where businesses around Indiana are asked to attend to donate to the council's Friends of Scouting.  Many of those same businesses are laying off personnel.  

At this time, units from across our council are experiencing what many are facing nationwide; rising costs of supplies and lodging.  Many units are having to increase their unit dues or outing fees due to the rising costs of food, supplies, and fuel.  These cost increases are even coming from the BSA as you are well aware, for things like awards.  Of course, many units continue to fundraise outside of popcorn and Lord Baden Powell taught us, part of scouting is paying your own way.  However, fundraising should only be a small portion of the scouting experience.   Therefore, many units are cutting back on costs, not participating in all the activities they may have had in the past, to help ensure the greatest mass of scouts can have scouting experiences.  But not Crossroads of American councils, they are spending on major projects, moving forward with building projects, which will provide an improvement for scouts, but are being done at a time when construction costs are rising.  Lastly in that is the Air Show that our council is creating for 2023.  The airport stopped producing this air show in 2013 due to low profits and even losses.  While an awesome opportunity for scouts to attend, the selection of the last weekend in October and other factors have many of us concerned, especially with the associated cost of producing such an event. 

We have no doubt that the council will help those in the greatest need, those being the families on government assistance so they can afford at least part of scouting.  Our concern is not as much because of that fact.  We are concerned about the group of families that fall into the income bracket above government assistance, but where an additional $240-$340 a year per scout is out of the question.  A cost that is compounded if they have multiple youths in the BSA.  These are youth that we already see skipping outings or extracurricular events due to cost constraints.  Cub Scouts whose parents are already opting them out of summer camp due to costs.  This plan that is being implemented is pricing out a portion of the Middle Class.  

Combine these costs with an increase in summer camp fees that are far greater than any surrounding council, and many of the families we stated above will simply leave as their children will only feel left behind.

 

 

[Eagle1993]

3 minutes ago, Eagle94-A1 said:

If this chart shows what is coming next year. I fear my troop will die, as will most units in my area.  We are in an economically disadvantage area. Many families are  lower class. Over 1/2 my troop is on some type of assistance to remain registered, and the remaining family can barely afford Scouting as it is. Glad one will age out, and the other just earned Eagle, pending national approval. 

As for the $240 Adventure Fee, is that to pay for a monthly camp out at a council camp? WE can get it cheaper per person going to other, more adventurous places.

Even parents of upper class ... $340 a year is a lot when you add in the various other costs including summer camp, etc.  Asking for $50/year ... ok, they will sign up little Jimmy/Sally even if they are not super active.  $340 ... all you are left with are the scouts where scouting is their ONLY activity.  That will drop scouts to a small fraction of who is currently registered.

[Delphinus]

Yikes! Why are the fees, particularly the Council fee, skyrocketing so much!? What added value are the Scouts and their families getting for that tremendous increase. All the Pack and Den leaders, the adult volunteers who actually do all of the work, are UNPAID. Where is all that extra money going? If they do that here, we'll probably drop out. We can easily afford it, but when I do a cost/benefit analysis, the value just isn't there to justify paying that much more. Our son has plenty of other extracurricular activities (sports, bowling, he's start Civil Air Patrol next year when he turns 12, etc...) that we don't need this program if they're going to try gouging us that much. I won't pay it just on principle. We're already seriously considering dropping out once he earns is AOL next month anyway, just because of some of the poor behavior and mistreatment from some of the Cub Scout adult leaders we've experienced the last several months.  

[Eagledad]

52 minutes ago, Delphinus said:

Yikes! Why are the fees, particularly the Council fee, skyrocketing so much!? What added value are the Scouts and their families getting for that tremendous increase. All the Pack and Den leaders, the adult volunteers who actually do all of the work, are UNPAID. Where is all that extra money going? If they do that here, we'll probably drop out. We can easily afford it, but when I do a cost/benefit analysis, the value just isn't there to justify paying that much more. Our son has plenty of other extracurricular activities (sports, bowling, he's start Civil Air Patrol next year when he turns 12, etc...) that we don't need this program if they're going to try gouging us that much. I won't pay it just on principle. We're already seriously considering dropping out once he earns is AOL next month anyway, just because of some of the poor behavior and mistreatment from some of the Cub Scout adult leaders we've experienced the last several months.  

I can't argue the fees, that is the result of the ongoing litigation. But, don't let bad adult leaders tant your opinion about the troops. The experience is typically different. Cub leaders can new and inexperienced with scouting and more often than I would like to see, they set bad examples. Troop leaders in most cases are more experienced and settled into the program. At least give them a chance. Camping and patrol experiences are fun. The Civil Air Patrol is pretty cool too. 

Barry