Why did BSA make Cub Scouting more expensive?

[cmd]

22 hours ago, Eagle94-A1 said:

And some councils have tacked on an insurance fee to MBCs, even though they can no longer camp with units.

Our council just increased our insurance fee from $6 to $20, and extended that to include MBCs.  So that has jumped from $0 to $45 this year.  That's a lot to ask someone to pay for the POSSIBILITY of someone asking to do a merit badge with them. 

An organization my husband is part of asked him to become a MBC because they had a troop asking them if they could supply one with the program they were signing up for.  But the process of vetting him as a MBC took 3-4 months and that program had long since passed by the time they approved him, and no one else has asked to work with him. If he had paid for that exclusive, it would be even more irksome! 

I really don't understand the reasoning behind the current version of the weird 2nd class MBC membership status.  Are they really costing us the same as all leaders, but being somewhat subsidized?  With restricted privileges so we're only subsidizing the ones who are unlikely to pay full price to join? I could accept that reasoning if they admitted that was the goal, but all I've heard is lawyer-blaming. 

A big piece of the MB role in the program is giving youth a reason to call an adult they don't already know and ask them to work together.  That seems like the obvious role for a groomer to step into.  If a person is safe enough to meet with my child in a MBC role, they're safe enough to camp with us, so I don't buy the official arguments about it. 

 

[PACAN]

@AwakeEnergyScouterI agree with you.    My response was somewhat tongue in cheek.  Councils who have added an additional annual fee on top of National tell units to sell more to offset their bill.

 

Scoutreach scouts count as traditional members.  They are anything but.  Their fees are subsidized.   Best I can tell they are an afterschool care program with an extremely limited program.    They are not in a District and have their own Professional. I've never seen a Scouts BSA scoutreach unit at a camporee.   

Any others with experience with Scoutreach??

[InquisitiveScouter]

9 minutes ago, cmd said:

Our council just increased our insurance fee from $6 to $20, and extended that to include MBCs.  So that has jumped from $0 to $45 this year.  That's a lot to ask someone to pay for the POSSIBILITY of someone asking to do a merit badge with them. 

An organization my husband is part of asked him to become a MBC because they had a troop asking them if they could supply one with the program they were signing up for.  But the process of vetting him as a MBC took 3-4 months and that program had long since passed by the time they approved him, and no one else has asked to work with him. If he had paid for that exclusive, it would be even more irksome! 

I really don't understand the reasoning behind the current version of the weird 2nd class MBC membership status.  Are they really costing us the same as all leaders, but being somewhat subsidized?  With restricted privileges so we're only subsidizing the ones who are unlikely to pay full price to join? I could accept that reasoning if they admitted that was the goal, but all I've heard is lawyer-blaming. 

A big piece of the MB role in the program is giving youth a reason to call an adult they don't already know and ask them to work together.  That seems like the obvious role for a groomer to step into.  If a person is safe enough to meet with my child in a MBC role, they're safe enough to camp with us, so I don't buy the official arguments about it. 

 

Our solution: have adults in the unit register as the counselor for as many MBs as they .  Then, have Scouts invite "guest" instructors in when you are having that piece of program.  When complete, you sign off the reqs as MBC.

This still does not quite meet the "Adult Association" method you were talking about... having the Scout learn to make arrangements for a MB with a new person.  (Because we usually do these in small group settings, so only one Scout is making the guest arrangements.)

Also, I have talked with several leaders in other units who say they just invite the "guests" to do the instruction, then sign off the MBs in Scoutbook, without being an MBC.  No, this does not meet the intent or design of the program, IMO, but the practice is underway...

Edited September 15, 2023 by InquisitiveScouter

[Eagle94-A1]

19 minutes ago, cmd said:

Our council just increased our insurance fee from $6 to $20, and extended that to include MBCs.  So that has jumped from $0 to $45 this year.  That's a lot to ask someone to pay for the POSSIBILITY of someone asking to do a merit badge with them. 

Yet the MBCs  cannot camp.

 

13 minutes ago, InquisitiveScouter said:

Also, I have talked with several leaders in other units who say they just invite the "guests" to do the instruction, then sign off the MBs in Scoutbook, without being an MBC.  No, this does not meet the intent or design of the program, IMO, but the practice is underway...

Will see a lot more of that, especially since it is already done at the Cub level.

[InquisitiveScouter]

1 minute ago, Eagle94-A1 said:

Yet the MBCs  cannot camp.

This one baffles me.  Except from the COR standpoint.  That is, your COR has an absolute say over who participates in their Scouting program.  But, if you clear it with your COR, then I don't see the issue. 

[AwakeEnergyScouter]

33 minutes ago, PACAN said:

Best I can tell they are an afterschool care program with an extremely limited program. 

This is my impression, too, but since I also don't know anyone involved with it or who has been in the program I don't really know if I'm right. I only know it exists because I read about it in the council program booklet.

Without knowing if our existing low SES area program is any good, it's hard to say if it makes sense to extend it, possibly with some changes, or whether a pack/troop subsidy type program would be better.

[Eagle94-A1]

57 minutes ago, InquisitiveScouter said:

This one baffles me.  Except from the COR standpoint.  That is, your COR has an absolute say over who participates in their Scouting program.  But, if you clear it with your COR, then I don't see the issue. 

I know some COs had no problem with parents taking YPT, getting a background check by the BSA, and registering as an  MBC. We were told that MBCs also underwent a background check. 

 

1 hour ago, PACAN said:

Any others with experience with Scoutreach??

Depends upon the council. In one council I was in, it was more than an afterschool program, just with subsidized SMs (he got resources he needed from the council. They had a parapro oversaw them and helped them.

In another council, it was mixed. One district had a paid parapro running the 3-4 troops afterschool. In another district, 4 troops shared a subsidized SM. He was retired and  4 meetings a week, and camped 4 weekends a month except when camporees occurred. Then all 4 units camped in the same campsite. Problem was when he left, all four units died overnight. Ditto with the parapro. When his wife got orders transferring them, all 3-4  units folded overnight.

[InquisitiveScouter]

16 minutes ago, Eagle94-A1 said:

I know some COs had no problem with parents taking YPT, getting a background check by the BSA, and registering as an  MBC. We were told that MBCs also underwent a background check.

I had this "discussion" with Michael Johnson some years back (2018).

I still have the email...  my question was about MBCs attending an event over 72 hours (back when that rule was in place).

My question was this:

Given the following:

1.  BSA requires registration for MBC's in order to complete a background check

2.  The state of PA also requires a PA State Police Criminal Record check, a PA Department of Human Services Child Abuse History check, and an Affidavit of Residence Over 10 Years in the State (or an FBI Fingerprint Check if not in PA 10 years or more)

3.  The COR approves the individual.

4.  There will be at least two unit-registered adult leaders on the outing.

Then why must they pay an additional registration fee, when BSA will accomplish no further actions?

His reply was that my question was an attempt '...to evade BSA's registration and selection process...'

Which, of course, it was nothing of the kind.  It was an attempt to evade burdensome registration fees  and additional unproductive nonsensical paperwork 😛 

 

Edited September 15, 2023 by InquisitiveScouter

[Delphinus]

1 hour ago, cmd said:

Our council just increased our insurance fee from $6 to $20, and extended that to include MBCs.  So that has jumped from $0 to $45 this year.  That's a lot to ask someone to pay for the POSSIBILITY of someone asking to do a merit badge with them. 

An organization my husband is part of asked him to become a MBC because they had a troop asking them if they could supply one with the program they were signing up for.  But the process of vetting him as a MBC took 3-4 months and that program had long since passed by the time they approved him, and no one else has asked to work with him. If he had paid for that exclusive, it would be even more irksome! 

I really don't understand the reasoning behind the current version of the weird 2nd class MBC membership status.  Are they really costing us the same as all leaders, but being somewhat subsidized?  With restricted privileges so we're only subsidizing the ones who are unlikely to pay full price to join? I could accept that reasoning if they admitted that was the goal, but all I've heard is lawyer-blaming. 

A big piece of the MB role in the program is giving youth a reason to call an adult they don't already know and ask them to work together.  That seems like the obvious role for a groomer to step into.  If a person is safe enough to meet with my child in a MBC role, they're safe enough to camp with us, so I don't buy the official arguments about it. 

 

My understanding is the MBC can ONLY meet with a Scout if another adult (e.g., a parent or another Adult Scouter) is present. I applied back in the spring to be a MBC. There was no charge. I subsequently submitted an application to be an Assistant Scout Master (ASM). Then, over the summer, we got the email announcing the fee increases. Thankfully, if I pay the fee to be an ASM, I don't have to pay the additional fee to be a MBC. I also put on my MBC application that I only intended to do it for Scouts in our troop and added that I would consider doing it for others outside of our Troop "on a case-by-case basis." 

[yknot]

1 hour ago, cmd said:

A big piece of the MB role in the program is giving youth a reason to call an adult they don't already know and ask them to work together.  That seems like the obvious role for a groomer to step into.  If a person is safe enough to meet with my child in a MBC role, they're safe enough to camp with us, so I don't buy the official arguments about it. 

 

Most kids today have plenty of opportunities to speak to and interact with unrelated adults. It's no longer a scenario or a role that is that unique to scouting. In the school setting and beyond, they are taught to self advocate from early ages. It might not matter that much if the associated costs wind up shifting it to being more of an in-unit role. Many units already do this with the Eagle required badges. I'm not sure, in today's liability environment, whether trying to maintain an unregulated extra-BSA corps of MBCs is worth the risk anyway. 

[BetterWithCheddar]

On 9/11/2023 at 10:50 AM, PACAN said:

@BetterWithCheddar  require  " parents to volunteer a certain number of hours"    

Sounds better than why one reason Packs and Troops go out of business  - We are in a drop and run game.

I don't know much about the local youth basketball program since my son is only in 1st grade, so I just signed up to be a parking lot attendant for a few of the high school's home games - basically, I just need to direct the visiting team to the gym and make sure no grandparents slip on the ice. Easy enough.

What I like about the basketball club's volunteer model is 1) they didn't charge me to volunteer and 2) their baseline assumption is that I'm not out to endanger children (sarc). I'm just a dopey dad who doesn't mind freezing his buns off in mid-February to make sure people get to and from the game safely - that was good enough for them.

[yknot]

3 hours ago, BetterWithCheddar said:

I don't know much about the local youth basketball program since my son is only in 1st grade, so I just signed up to be a parking lot attendant for a few of the high school's home games - basically, I just need to direct the visiting team to the gym and make sure no grandparents slip on the ice. Easy enough.

What I like about the basketball club's volunteer model is 1) they didn't charge me to volunteer and 2) their baseline assumption is that I'm not out to endanger children (sarc). I'm just a dopey dad who doesn't mind freezing his buns off in mid-February to make sure people get to and from the game safely - that was good enough for them.

I've volunteered in several youth organizations and the only thing I've had to pay for was $12 for fingerprinting to be a coach and then an overnight chaperone. In return, I've gotten discount fees for my kids, free food, and had things like identifying shirts provided free or at a discount. I'm not aware of anything BSA does. Some units, if they have the money, pay for their key adult registrations but that is not something that the national BSA has a provision for.   

[InquisitiveScouter]

3 hours ago, yknot said:

I'm not aware of anything BSA does.

Ask you for more money and treat you like dirt?

[Ojoman]

13 hours ago, BetterWithCheddar said:

I don't know much about the local youth basketball program since my son is only in 1st grade, so I just signed up to be a parking lot attendant...What I like about the basketball club's volunteer model is 1) they didn't charge me to volunteer and 2) their baseline assumption is that I'm not out to endanger children (sarc). I'm just a dopey dad who doesn't mind freezing his buns off in mid-February 

Sadly, The kids, parents, chartered partners (CR & IH) and local officials were betrayed by people that they 'trusted' with kids. Your role is public in a parking lot and doesn't involve being an authority figure to kids. Big difference. With the type of settlements being handed out and the cost of background checks, insurance and related expenses it is more important now than ever to engage everyone young and old in Youth Protection #1 for the kids and #2 for the program. I personally believe that the BSA has been and will continue to be one of the best and safest programs for kids. 1 abused kid is too many.