Why did BSA make Cub Scouting more expensive?

[cmd]

@PACAN Have you been involved with Cubs lately?  There may not always be a lot of help from parents, but I would never call it "a drop and run game".  In fact, that's the biggest difference I see between cub scouts and Daisy/Brownies.  The GSUSA programs in our area meet after school with two moms running the whole show and no other parent in sight.  Cubs, on the other hand, have a firm national policy that if a parent doesn't attend, the Lion/Tiger can't either.  Most packs I know have internal policies that parents are required with all Wolf/Bear cubs unless they absolutely can't, and by the time they get to Webelos/AOL, parents are so used to staying that they all just stick around even though it would probably be better to start giving the kids a little space before launching them into a troop.
 

[PACAN]

24 minutes ago, cmd said:

@PACAN Have you been involved with Cubs lately?  There may not always be a lot of help from parents, but I would never call it "a drop and run game".  In fact, that's the biggest difference I see between cub scouts and Daisy/Brownies.  The GSUSA programs in our area meet after school with two moms running the whole show and no other parent in sight.  Cubs, on the other hand, have a firm national policy that if a parent doesn't attend, the Lion/Tiger can't either.  Most packs I know have internal policies that parents are required with all Wolf/Bear cubs unless they absolutely can't, and by the time they get to Webelos/AOL, parents are so used to staying that they all just stick around even though it would probably be better to start giving the kids a little space before launching them into a troop.
 

 

[PACAN]

Just now, PACAN said:

 

Yes.   I also notice how many units of cubs and scouts have folded for what they say is lack of volunteers 

[cmd]

Lack of volunteers is a problem, but it's a "sit and wait for someone to tell me exactly what to do while I'm here with my kid" problem, not drop and run.  I know that may seem like splitting hairs, but clearly defining a problem is the first step in correcting it.  

I see people complaining all the time about people thinking we're Baby Sitters of America and the message that sends is that we need parents to show up and be responsible for their kids.  Some kids DO need a parent there to manage their behavior, but for others, especially the tween years, having someone OTHER than the parent working to manage the youth's behavior is actually more helpful.  I have often wished it was a drop off program because  I don't want to be in a situation of needing to manage someone else's parenting style because it's frankly toxic and has just killed the mood of our entire campout.  But even when that's not the case, just having more parents in the room doesn't make the task easier.  They need a job to do and to know how to do it.
What we do need is for parents to say "Thank you so much for herding these squirrels so I don't have to and for planning our program.  How can I support you?"
Ideas that don't require "being good with kids", many of them very small tasks that don't depend at all on attendance at the meeting/event:
Treasurer
Health Form tracking
New Member Coordinator
Staff 1 recruiting night
Haul returnable bottles and cans from our drop off to the redemption center
Post flyers around town
Post flyers in school enews
Post content on our Facebook page
Take pictures
Make sure that thank you notes are sent to guest speakers
Coordinate used uniform exchange

Trying to do all of those small things in addition to the big things are what causes leaders to burn out, or set an example of what being a leader looks like that causes all the other potential volunteers to run away! 

[Delphinus]

I noticed that the fees on the Boy Scout side have gone up significantly this year based on an email notification a month or so ago.. Assistant Scoutmaster registration prices have increased about 50% this year, and Merit Badge Counselors, people who volunteer and freely donate their time and expertise, have gone from no fee to an annual $25 fee for the opportunity to volunteer their time. This will make it far LESS likely that people will volunteer. I'll help out as an ASM and merit badge counselor for a couple of years, but I am trying to get our son to get through the program and "Eagle Out" sooner. Once he does, my freely donated time and expertise will end. 

Not enough to volunteer my time, energy, and expertise, or even that I pay for that privilege, but now the price to pay to volunteer is going up? 

[InquisitiveScouter]

3 minutes ago, Delphinus said:

I noticed that the fees on the Boy Scout side have gone up significantly this year based on an email notification a month or so ago.. Assistant Scoutmaster registration prices have increased about 50% this year, and Merit Badge Counselors, people who volunteer and freely donate their time and expertise, have gone from no fee to an annual $25 fee for the opportunity to volunteer their time. This will make it far LESS likely that people will volunteer. I'll help out as an ASM and merit badge counselor for a couple of years, but I am trying to get our son to get through the program and "Eagle Out" sooner. Once he does, my freely donated time and expertise will end. 

Not enough to volunteer my time, energy, and expertise, or even that I pay for that privilege, but now the price to pay to volunteer is going up? 

I think BSA does not really know what side their bread is buttered on.

IMO, fewer adult volunteers will only mean fewer Scouts for the membership rolls.

[Ojoman]

6 minutes ago, Delphinus said:

Not enough to volunteer my time, energy, and expertise, or even that I pay for that privilege, but now the price to pay to volunteer is going up? 

For the last 30 years there have been elements that objected to various 'values' expressed by the BSA and their Chartered Partners which resulted in activists dragging the BSA into court at great expense. At the same time the BSA was slow to respond to social changes. This resulted in declines in membership and losses from certain funding sources including many United Way agencies. More recently the BSA went through a major court case that awarded over 2.4 Billion in damages of which Lawyers will get about 1 Billion. It was easier and more profitable to sue the BSA instead of going after individual abusers. These things are far from over and have forced the BSA to sharply increase fees and revamp criteria for parents and volunteers.  This is literally killing one of the best programs for instilling character and citizenship in young people. Additionally, with a shrinking professional support team local councils have found it easier to tack on their own service fees than raise operating funds, these fees did not exist until recently. While the 12 month program often is not more expensive than enrollment in  sports programs for the youths, the costs for parents to 'volunteer' along with the youth increase is burdensome to many families. Time will tell if the BSA will survive all of this. I hope it does.  

[AwakeEnergyScouter]

Our pack pays all adult fees and in-person trainings for this reason. (Out of popcorn money.)

[Eagle94-A1]

55 minutes ago, Delphinus said:

... Merit Badge Counselors, people who volunteer and freely donate their time and expertise, have gone from no fee to an annual $25 fee for the opportunity to volunteer their time. 

And some councils have tacked on an insurance fee to MBCs, even though they can no longer camp with units.

 

39 minutes ago, Ojoman said:

 This is literally killing one of the best programs for instilling character and citizenship in young people. Additionally, with a shrinking professional support team local councils have found it easier to tack on their own service fees than raise operating funds, these fees did not exist until recently. While the 12 month program often is not more expensive than enrollment in  sports programs for the youths, the costs for parents to 'volunteer' along with the youth increase is burdensome to many families. Time will tell if the BSA will survive all of this. I hope it does.  

Understatement. Less staff, added council fees, and seeing no value for these fees is making many jaded in my area. And some families used Scouting in lieu of sports because they could not afford sport, like my family. Glad my older two are out because I do not think I could afford all 4 of us in the program ( would have been 5, but after multiple attempts to get the wife registered, and when she is finally registered as an MBC, she gets dropped with every other MBC in the council, she said "enough is enough. no more."

I honestly do not know how much longer I can afford to stay involved.

42 minutes ago, AwakeEnergyScouter said:

Our pack pays all adult fees and in-person trainings for this reason. (Out of popcorn money.)

Sadly not every unit is in that situation. Mine is in a high poverty, rural part of the US where the median income is barely above the US poverty rate.

[fred8033]

38 minutes ago, Eagle94-A1 said:

Glad my older two are out because I do not think I could afford all 4 of us in the program ( would have been 5, but after multiple attempts to get the wife registered, and when she is finally registered as an MBC, she gets dropped with every other MBC in the council, she said "enough is enough. no more."

Scouting is financially prohibitive.  I noticed that ten years ago.

At one point, my family had four active scouts and two registered adults (wife and myself).  With new council fees ($200+), my family would be at $890.  Add unit dues for four scouts.  Add another $1500 for summer camp.  Add another $30+ minimum per person per weekend camp out.  Add miscellaneous costs.  I would need to budget at least $4000 per year to have my kids in scouting.  

That is two or three really nice family vacations per year.  Heck, I could afford a small camper at this cost.

[Ojoman]

THERE IS A CERTAIN SEGMENT OF OUR SOCIETY THAT WANTS SCOUTING BSA GONE! They have been working for decades to destroy a program that teaches responsibility and accountability, discipline, respect and Duty to one's own God. They don't want honesty, character, citizenship or wholesome programs and activities taught or given to our children. We are seeing our kids growing up surrounded by entertainment that glorifies sex, drugs and violence along with disrespect for authorities. Families have drifted away from churches, and 1 in every three children live in a single parent home while many others are in blended families due to divorce. Childhood poverty is higher now than ever and urban environments are unsafe for raising children. Regardless of the cost, we must find new ways to deliver the values of Scouting. Today, we are in a battle for the hearts, minds and very souls of our kids. Scouting may not be the total answer but it can and should be a big part of the answer. You can't put a price on a child"s future and it has been proven over and over that kids and families benefit greatly from involvement in Scouting. 

 

[AwakeEnergyScouter]

Are you saying that BSA made cub scouting so expensive to destroy cub scouting because national doesn't want honesty, character, citizenship or wholesome programs and activities taught or given to our children, @Ojoman? Surely not.

This has been discussed in other threads already, and this kind of a post is just going to detail this thread from the question of why cub scouting has gotten more expensive. You clearly feel this way and under attack, but since not everyone does just stating all this as fact is inevitably going to result in those who don't connect with this at all to ask for proof and then we're instantly off topic for a long time. If we ever get back, that is. 

[AwakeEnergyScouter]

It sounds like, based on what @Eagle94-A1 and @fred8033 are saying here combined with what @BetterWithCheddar said earlier (and what he said sounds pretty familiar), that scouting with BSA is once again becoming more for the bourgeoisie than the working class or farmers.

The factors leading to the cost increases aren't quick to change, due to organization culture if nothing else. So the question becomes what else can be done to make it possible for those struggling to meet for the new cost level to scout. 

[PACAN]

Council's standard answer is " sell more popcorn"

[AwakeEnergyScouter]

That works well in affluent areas. However, Eagle91-A1 mentioned living in an area where either the median or average income was close to the poverty limit. "Sell more popcorn" is going to result in packs (and presumably troops) in bourgeoisie areas like mine and BetterWithCheddar's flourishing and those in economically disadvantaged areas struggling and/or folding. (People with $25-$40 to spend on pre-popped flavored popcorn aren't struggling, and you need a lot of them around you to raise a lot of money. I see this even neighborhood to neighborhood in our city - we sold well door to door right in our subdivision, other parents report they only sold a few tins in several hours in theirs.) Packs in high SES areas will have an easier time to sell popcorn, even though they also are best able to afford to pay out of pocket.

This seems like the default outcome, unless we find a mechanism for supporting scouting in economically disadvantaged areas.

How successful is Scoutreach? Do they ever go camping? I'm guessing not. Perhaps one possibility is to beef up Scoutreach to be closer to regular scouting. Or perhaps well to-do packs and troops can directly or indirectly help subsidize those in low SES areas. 

I'm asking the question to see if we can, by putting our heads together, find a better solution than council.