Why did BSA make Cub Scouting more expensive?

[HashTagScouts]

28 minutes ago, Ojoman said:

Today it is not unusual for a Council Scout Exec to be compensated (benefits & salary) at a quarter of a million or more. A really great SE is worth that and more. A board that invests that much in a council exec should expect performance. I have worked for both great council execs and for really bad ones. Councils that consistently lose membership, merge districts, cut staff and run in the red or constantly raise less money year after year probably have a leadership problem. Councils that hold their own in difficult times and grow and rise to the challenges probably have solid leadership. The field execs generally work longer hours than their compensation would reflect and where there is poor leadership they tend to 'get out' and go where they will be properly compensated and appreciated. There will always be those in the profession that are highly competent and committed to the programs and mission and councils are blessed to have them at any level. Scouting needs solid, competent and dedicated professionals. Support the good and great ones and don't tolerate incompetent ones. 

It's a system that has just made a "good ole' boy" network the only game in town. Truly, BSA should take a solid look at itself and ask how inclusive it really is, and its dedication to that, at the number of females it has in the SE ranks. Don't see a whole lot on the horizon that is going to increase those numbers in the short term either. What we have is a bunch of folks who have four year degrees (but, in just about any major) with little to no work experience outside of BSA, who have managed to stick it out for 10-15 years and find themselves in positions to be "CEO". Yes, we have some good people who have used their experiences well and have been/can be successful with the position, but we also have quite a few that would be hard pressed to get a job in anything higher than lower-management in corporate America.

Holding them accountable- or, not tolerate them- is a whole other issue. How many of you can raise your hand and say your Council is transparent on when the E-board meets? Get any minutes from those meetings? Heck, get anything but disdain and conflict if you ask any questions of them? Our COR has never received anything from Council, so the idea that they ask every CO to have a voice is completely not true. Our current Council President has sent two emails total since the start of 2021. Predecessor had one FB live fireside chat in two years. Other than participating in that FB live fireside, the SE has sent exactly zero communications of their own in over three years. There should be plenty of motivation for these folks to be transparent and demonstrate that they are being good stewards for the sake of youth, but sadly there just is not enough of that happening in practice, and not nearly enough controls to hold them to account (other than packing your rucksack and moving on and let your feet do the talking- if they are even listening to that).

[Eagle94-A1]

1 hour ago, Ojoman said:

Today it is not unusual for a Council Scout Exec to be compensated (benefits & salary) at a quarter of a million or more. 

My council must get some pathetic SEs then. Do not have the records since the new SE came aboard, but the old one, before firing, made about $150K total compensation. That is approximately 682% of the median income in some areas of the council ( yes in some areas median income is $22,000/year) And the services provided to this area was negligible at best.

2 hours ago, Ojoman said:

The field execs generally work longer hours than their compensation would reflect and where there is poor leadership they tend to 'get out' and go where they will be properly compensated and appreciated. 

 There is more to it than compensation. Yes DEs are paid poorly overall and can make double, and in one case quadruple, their income by switching jobs. Being appreciated and treated with respect was the #1 issue with the pros  I worked with. The abuse the SE and DFS heaped upon the DEs caused  many of my coworkers to quit. And the numbers rigging. Do not get me started.

2 hours ago, Ojoman said:

 There will always be those in the profession that are highly competent and committed to the programs and mission and councils are blessed to have them at any level. Scouting needs solid, competent and dedicated professionals. Support the good and great ones and don't tolerate incompetent ones. 

In my experience as both a pro and volunteer, these folks are EXTREMELY rare. They either luck out and follow the coattails of other rare pros, are they get sick and tired of the abuse and games, and quit. 

[RandomScouter]

On 2/5/2023 at 1:46 PM, SiouxRanger said:

And therein "lies the rub." (not sure of the attribution of the concept-perhaps my friend ThenNow can help).

@SiouxRanger  -- Is it not Hamlet?

[Ojoman]

4 hours ago, HashTagScouts said:

It's a system that has just made a "good ole' boy" network the only game in town. Truly, BSA should take a 

Holding them accountable- or, not tolerate them- is a whole other issue. How many of you can raise your hand and say your Council is transparent on when the E-board meets? 

Every unit has a Chartered Partner Rep and they are voting members of the council. If the problem is big en;ough, get the CR's together and go rock the boat. You have nothing to lose. 

[Delphinus]

On 2/13/2023 at 3:57 PM, Eagle1993 said:

Only name I see on the 2020 990 form is JAMES PARNELL who was paid $104K.   Honestly not too bad compared to most councils I have seen.

Thanks!  I wonder if that was for the whole calendar year, or if he just started the position mid-year. 

[Delphinus]

On 2/13/2023 at 5:38 PM, InquisitiveScouter said:

See page 17. they reported $0 for 2019

I find that very odd...

https://apps.irs.gov/pub/epostcard/cor/540505875_201912_990_2020112017429593.pdf

In 2018, a different guy got paid $192K.  See page 18 at

https://apps.irs.gov/pub/epostcard/cor/540505875_201812_990_2019091616653396.pdf

And here's their Trust Fund report in 2019

https://apps.irs.gov/pub/epostcard/cor/541707488_201912_990_2020091417296410.pdf

Enjoy!

(Hey, now you know why I am blacklisted in our council!  For sharing public information!)

My guess is the first guy who earned $192K left, there was a gap and hence no compensation, and then James Parnell started in mid-year 2020. Still, $192K seems like an INSANELY high level of compensation for a Council Executive. Many of the high-level GS jobs and contractor jobs in the Tidewater Council area, those that require a LOT of military experience, a Top Secret/SCI security clearance, and Masters degrees, don't pay anywhere close to that much. It still makes me wonder why a guy earning that much has the audacity to come to the Packs and beg parents, most of whom don't earn anywhere close to that much, to donate more money over and above their fees and all the time spent selling popcorn.

BTW, How do you find those links/files!?

[InquisitiveScouter]

19 hours ago, Delphinus said:

My guess is the first guy who earned $192K left, there was a gap and hence no compensation, and then James Parnell started in mid-year 2020. Still, $192K seems like an INSANELY high level of compensation for a Council Executive. Many of the high-level GS jobs and contractor jobs in the Tidewater Council area, those that require a LOT of military experience, a Top Secret/SCI security clearance, and Masters degrees, don't pay anywhere close to that much. It still makes me wonder why a guy earning that much has the audacity to come to the Packs and beg parents, most of whom don't earn anywhere close to that much, to donate more money over and above their fees and all the time spent selling popcorn.

BTW, How do you find those links/files!?

Go to the IRS Tax Exempt Organization Search page at

https://apps.irs.gov/app/eos/

Enter the criteria you want for a search.  If you know the EIN, that is easiest, as all councils do not use the same naming convention, so the search may not return good results by name.  (Tidewater's EIN is 54-0505875 )

Charity Navigator has a better search engine, IMO

https://www.charitynavigator.org/

P.S.  Tidewater also has a separate Trust Fund, EIN 54-1707488

Fair warning, the more you know and share, the greater you become PNG to your council

 

 

[Delphinus]

1 hour ago, InquisitiveScouter said:

Go to the IRS Tax Exempt Organization Search page at

https://apps.irs.gov/app/eos/

Enter the criteria you want for a search.  If you know the EIN, that is easiest, as all councils do not use the same naming convention, so the search may not return good results by name.  (Tidewater's EIN is 54-0505875 )

Charity Navigator has a better search engine, IMO

https://www.charitynavigator.org/

P.S.  Tidewater also has a separate Trust Fund, EIN 54-1707488

Fair warning, the more you know and share, the greater you become PNG to your council

Awesome!  Thank you!

[Ojoman]

I suppose that a pack and or new families could opt for the red vest as a uniform, at least initially. If a pack has someone that sews, just make a pattern and buy red felt with a 50j% or 60% off coupon and bang out a bunch. Simple enough. Since most kids join in the Sept/Oct timeframe Christmas is right around the corner and you might suggest that parents opt to get uniform parts a Christmas gifts instead of a lot of the 'junk' that ends up played with once and then gathers dust. 

[rallybug]

Crossroads of the West (uses same EIN as Great Salt Lake Council did) shows only one paid position for 2020, the SE, at $123,107 for reportable compensation from the organization, plus $71,592 in other compensation from the orgnaization and related organizations, so $194,699 in total.

[InquisitiveScouter]

1 hour ago, rallybug said:

Crossroads of the West (uses same EIN as Great Salt Lake Council did) shows only one paid position for 2020, the SE, at $123,107 for reportable compensation from the organization, plus $71,592 in other compensation from the orgnaization and related organizations, so $194,699 in total.

They only have to report if total comp is $100K+

[BetterWithCheddar]

This feels like an appropriate forum to vent:

I'm putting together an email for families in my son's den that contains details on upcoming events hosted by our council. One such event is a "family scouting outing" at a local council camp. The cost is $45/person. So, hypothetically, a family of 4 would pay $180 to attend an event on a property owned by the council and staffed by volunteers. This does not even include meals.

$180! 😬

[InquisitiveScouter]

Check out your local KOA.  Sometimes $40 per night for the whole family, accepts pets, and they usually have a swimming pool, and a lot less hassle.

Call them... you might even get a discount if you tell them you are a Scouting family on your own 

https://koa.com/states-provinces/wisconsin/

Some have group sites, and you can camp as a Den or Pack there.  KOA's should be on the council approved Cub camping list.  ("Cub Scout camping is limited to their council’s designated locations with appropriate facilities.)

$180 is outrageous for a family of four at a local Scout camp event, especially when not including meals.

 

[MikeS72]

2 hours ago, BetterWithCheddar said:

This feels like an appropriate forum to vent:

I'm putting together an email for families in my son's den that contains details on upcoming events hosted by our council. One such event is a "family scouting outing" at a local council camp. The cost is $45/person. So, hypothetically, a family of 4 would pay $180 to attend an event on a property owned by the council and staffed by volunteers. This does not even include meals.

$180! 😬

Does your council collect a council program fee, and if so, what does it cover?  Ours does ($60) and covers the following:

Members are excited this registration fee includes the Central Florida Council Program Fee which covers the event fee for Scouts and Scouters to attend:

• District Cub Scout Shooting Sports and or Adventure Days

• District Cub Scout Family Campouts

• District Webelos Woods

• District Scouts BSA Fall Camporees

• District Scouts BSA Spring Camporees

• Annual District Banquets

• Certain District Adult Leader Trainings

• Central Florida Council University of Scouting

 

The Central Florida Council Program fee also provides a subsidy for each registration for NYLT and Wood Badge courses. 

 

[BetterWithCheddar]

2 hours ago, MikeS72 said:

Does your council collect a council program fee, and if so, what does it cover?

To my knowledge, they do not collect a program fee.

My son and I have participated in a few one-day events where the charge has been nominal ($10-$15/person). I'm assuming the liability insurance compounds with overnight stays?