Why did BSA make Cub Scouting more expensive?

[Eagle1993]

43 minutes ago, Delphinus said:

I wonder how much the Tidewater Council executives get paid? I don't know if they're full-time equivalent employees , but it certainly gives incentives for them to show up to the pack Blue & Gold events every year, highjack the meetings for 40 minutes, and high-pressure the parents to donate money and achieve donation goals. 

Only name I see on the 2020 990 form is JAMES PARNELL who was paid $104K.   Honestly not too bad compared to most councils I have seen.

[Eagle1993]

44 minutes ago, KublaiKen said:

This is what we received from NCAC:

Quote

One of my fears is that CAC's $20/month fee was the foot in the door.  Many people who are younger seem to gravitate to the subscription model.  This car will only cost you $400/month.  This home will only cost you $2500/month.  If you don't look at the total cost of something, the monthly fees don't seem that bad (until you add them all up).

BSA only costs $20/month in CAC ...   $20/month sounds perfectly reasonable until you multiple that by 12 and realize a few years ago the equivalent was only $30/year.  

Once you establish $20/month then a change to $22/month much easier than trying to make a $24/year annual increase.    Perhaps this is where we are headed ... if we are, I'll probably not be around for the ride.  

 

[HashTagScouts]

41 minutes ago, MacBrave said:

A link to the PDF that was used to present this new "Adventure Fee" to CAC volunteers at last week's district roundtables is here:https://crossroadsbsa.org/wp-content/uploads/2023/02/PP.pdf?vgo_ee=PEyTUlc0mr504drzrLyWRWVLY1pGRWb2%2B0FTX4hhTec%3D

 

And as a long time volunteer in the Crossroads of America Council at both the Pack and Troop level I do not approve of this fee.

 

I do think we are going to see more and more councils that were not charging a separate liability insurance fee to units will start to. Spirit of Adventure Council charges $100/year on top of Nationals chartering fee.

Discount on "monthly specials" only at Crossroads Outfitters? OK. Not on everything, just what would probably otherwise have been a sale price on a monthly item.

What I would be wary of is the discount on activities/rentals. The councils here that put in the annual fee for "Adventure Card" just jacked prices up that same year for events/rentals, so the net benefit was really not much. And, considering that many of those things are booked by the unit and not the individual, it meant that the unit had to buy at least one adult that could handle the bookings an "Adventure Card" membership to get the discount for the unit.

[SiouxRanger]

1 hour ago, KublaiKen said:

This is what we received from NCAC:

 

And thereby the Council was killed.

I quit giving to Friends of Scouting when my council executive was paid more than 4 times my income. Just a simple lawyer, I am, huge liability if I get it wrong.  BSA Council executives are grossly overpaid.  My local council executive gets paid nearly what my child gets paid as an attending radiologist.  (MD).  My child gets it wrong, patient dies. Council Executive gets it wrong-well staff gets it wrong-an extra three minute wait for a porta-potty.

My current Council Executive manages a staff of 9± (down from 27 staff) and is paid about $300,000. About what the prior Council Executive was paid managing a staff of 27±. Hmmm.?

I find it difficult to subsidize the income of someone whose income exceeds mine and whose performance is less than mine.  Someone I'd never hire.

(And if anything goes bad, the lawyer gets hammered first for the failure, no matter whose fault it is.  Lawyer = educated = most educated = surely the most wrong.)

 

Edited February 13, 2023 by SiouxRanger
a ")" needed to close ()

[Ojoman]

BSA fees effective August 2022 and they will be going up

• $75 for Cub Scouts, Scouts BSA, Venturing and Sea Scouts participants ($3 increase)
• $45 for Exploring participants (no change in cost)
• $30 for council-paid memberships (no change in cost)
• $45 for all adult volunteers (no change in cost, includes cost of background check) 
• $100 for a unit charter/affiliation fee ($25 increase)

• CUB SCOUT UNIFORM Hat                         22.99 Shirt                       32.99 Belt                        14.99 Neckerchief       12,99 Slide                      7.99 Unit # x3              5.97 Total                      97.92 Vest                       14.99 Pants                     32.99 Total                      145.90 Handbook           23.99 Total                      169.89 Scout Life            15.00 Total                      184.89 Don’t forget the sales tax on most of the above

  $25 one-time joining fee for new program participants in Cub Scouts, Scouts BSA, Venturing and Sea Scouts (Not pro-rated, no change in cost) 
• $15 for Scout Life magazine; this is the first price increase since 2005

($3 increase)

 It can cost a family over $300 to join Cubbing and uniform their child for the first year. That doesn’t include unit dues or event/activity fees.

Time to go to a pack neckerchief, make hats optional and start a pack uniform bank to exchange 'experienced' uniforms. 

 

[InquisitiveScouter]

2 hours ago, Delphinus said:

I wonder how much the Tidewater Council executives get paid? I don't know if they're full-time equivalent employees , but it certainly gives incentives for them to show up to the pack Blue & Gold events every year, highjack the meetings for 40 minutes, and high-pressure the parents to donate money and achieve donation goals. 

See page 17. they reported $0 for 2019

I find that very odd...

https://apps.irs.gov/pub/epostcard/cor/540505875_201912_990_2020112017429593.pdf

In 2018, a different guy got paid $192K.  See page 18 at

https://apps.irs.gov/pub/epostcard/cor/540505875_201812_990_2019091616653396.pdf

And here's their Trust Fund report in 2019

https://apps.irs.gov/pub/epostcard/cor/541707488_201912_990_2020091417296410.pdf

Enjoy!

(Hey, now you know why I am blacklisted in our council!  For sharing public information!)

[InquisitiveScouter]

1 hour ago, SiouxRanger said:

I find it difficult to subsidize the income of someone whose income exceeds mine and whose performance is less than mine.  Someone I'd never hire.

You, my friend, are a kindred soul!

[InquisitiveScouter]

1 hour ago, Eagle1993 said:

Only name I see on the 2020 990 form is JAMES PARNELL who was paid $104K.   Honestly not too bad compared to most councils I have seen.

For Tidewater Council, my guess is, Parnell was named in 2019, but did not start until sometime later in 2020.  Expect salary to be above $192K, which is what the previous guy got.

You really want to find out? Call your council office and ask to see their IRS Form 990 for 2021, and 2022 (if filed).

They are required, by law, to allow you access to this information.  They do not have to provide you a copy, but they must allow you to see this in their office during normal business hours.

If they refuse, please report them to your local Congressional Representative, and the IRS.  Please!!

Edited February 13, 2023 by InquisitiveScouter

[Armymutt]

Here's Middle Tennessee Council: https://projects.propublica.org/nonprofits/organizations/620477729

 

Quite a jump between the SE and the deputy.

 

For comparison, Occoneechee Council in NC:

https://projects.propublica.org/nonprofits/organizations/560529984

 

I think Occoneechee has a far superior camp and overall facilities.

[InquisitiveScouter]

11 hours ago, Armymutt said:

Quite a jump between the SE and the deputy.

This is why many hang on tightly until they get the golden ticket SE position.  Also, why the professional corps created a system where there is no hiring of "outsiders."

Is an experienced executive or CEO of say, another youth organization, or a Y, even allowed to put in a resume for an opening in a BSA Council SE position?  No way... National gives the council board a slate of candidates from which to pick their next CEO.  IMO, that is bad for business...

So, who is really choosing your next SE?

[InquisitiveScouter]

16 hours ago, MacBrave said:

A link to the PDF that was used to present this new "Adventure Fee" to CAC volunteers at last week's district roundtables is here:https://crossroadsbsa.org/wp-content/uploads/2023/02/PP.pdf?vgo_ee=PEyTUlc0mr504drzrLyWRWVLY1pGRWb2%2B0FTX4hhTec%3D

 

And as a long time volunteer in the Crossroads of America Council at both the Pack and Troop level I do not approve of this fee.

 

My word... look at slide 9, "If a Scout separates from Scouting and wants to return later, does he or she have to pay the Joining Fee again?"  YES????!!!

Their Joining Fee is simply a flat fee combining the BSA Joining Fee and the BSA Annual Registration Costs.  National has no such rule in place (that I know of), so why would the council do it?  If Jimmy takes a year off from Scouting and comes back, our local registrar does not hit them with National's Joining Fee again...  His old record is still in the system.

[Eagle94-A1]

We were told by some executive board  members that after they fired the SE for running the council into the ground (just looked at the financials and HOW could the exec board not realize the SE was ruining the council when it was went into the red over $1 million over a 4 year period), that they could look for folks with outside experience for the SE. Do not know how true that was as the current SE is a lifelong professional.

44 minutes ago, InquisitiveScouter said:

...  No way... National gives the council board a slate of candidates from which to pick their next CEO.  IMO, that is bad for business...

So, who is really choosing your next SE?

 

You are correct, National gives the exec board a slate of candidates that they interview and pick. Although see above. I know when my council went thru this process, and I discovered someone I worked with was on the list, I wrote a detailed letter about the individual, and had a 90 minute meeting with the head of the selection committee. They were not selected. 

[InquisitiveScouter]

2 minutes ago, Eagle94-A1 said:

We were told by some executive board  members that after they fired the SE for running the council into the ground (just looked at the financials and HOW could the exec board not realize the SE was ruining the council when it was went into the red over $1 million over a 4 year period), that they could look for folks with outside experience for the SE. Do not know how true that was as the current SE is a lifelong professional.

 

You are correct, National gives the exec board a slate of candidates that they interview and pick. Although see above. I know when my council went thru this process, and I discovered someone I worked with was on the list, I wrote a detailed letter about the individual, and had a 90 minute meeting with the head of the selection committee. They were not selected. 

I know a wonderful woman in our area who absolutely loves Scouting.  She has four kids in the program right now.  She is from the area and is well connected in many circles in our community.  She knows what Scouting has done for our community, and knows many of the volunteers who live here (and who also have been involved with Scouting for a billion years). She has been on the board of three other local 501C3's in our community who have had a significant impact in environmental and heritage preservation, wild animal rehabilitation and community education (about the animals), and a women's shelter.  She has run successful capital campaigns for all three organizations.  She has many other qualities which would make her an excellent CEO.  Would she ever be considered?  I do not believe so.  Not part of "the club."

[Ojoman]

Today it is not unusual for a Council Scout Exec to be compensated (benefits & salary) at a quarter of a million or more. A really great SE is worth that and more. A board that invests that much in a council exec should expect performance. I have worked for both great council execs and for really bad ones. Councils that consistently lose membership, merge districts, cut staff and run in the red or constantly raise less money year after year probably have a leadership problem. Councils that hold their own in difficult times and grow and rise to the challenges probably have solid leadership. The field execs generally work longer hours than their compensation would reflect and where there is poor leadership they tend to 'get out' and go where they will be properly compensated and appreciated. There will always be those in the profession that are highly competent and committed to the programs and mission and councils are blessed to have them at any level. Scouting needs solid, competent and dedicated professionals. Support the good and great ones and don't tolerate incompetent ones. 

[InquisitiveScouter]

3 minutes ago, Ojoman said:

Today it is not unusual for a Council Scout Exec to be compensated (benefits & salary) at a quarter of a million or more. A really great SE is worth that and more. A board that invests that much in a council exec should expect performance. I have worked for both great council execs and for really bad ones. Councils that consistently lose membership, merge districts, cut staff and run in the red or constantly raise less money year after year probably have a leadership problem. Councils that hold their own in difficult times and grow and rise to the challenges probably have solid leadership. The field execs generally work longer hours than their compensation would reflect and where there is poor leadership they tend to 'get out' and go where they will be properly compensated and appreciated. There will always be those in the profession that are highly competent and committed to the programs and mission and councils are blessed to have them at any level. Scouting needs solid, competent and dedicated professionals. Support the good and great ones and don't tolerate incompetent ones. 

Agreed, but having the job be more competitive, by allowing an "outsider" to be considered for the job could only expand our pool of talent.