Why did BSA make Cub Scouting more expensive?

[Eagle94-A1]

I cannot say anything about Lions, but  from working with my 3 boys from Tigers, it is extremely exhausting for adults. The Den Leader is the toughest volunteer position, bar none.  I was a denleader for 6 years and was burnt out on Cubs. I have been involved with troop 7 years now, and no burn out yet. Prior to Oldest becoming a Tiger, I volunteered with troops, OA, and the district for  9 years, and no burn out.

As for the Scouts, they are ready and chomping at the bit to Cross Over.  4th grade is when the transition to Scouts begins, at least according to the old BSA Literature as I am told that is no longer the case with the current literature, They were ready, willing and able to cross over. But I trained my Webelos DL replacements the way I was trained.

 

[fred8033]

4 hours ago, Eagle94-A1 said:

I cannot say anything about Lions, but  from working with my 3 boys from Tigers, it is extremely exhausting for adults. The Den Leader is the toughest volunteer position, bar none.  I was a denleader for 6 years and was burnt out on Cubs. I have been involved with troop 7 years now, and no burn out yet. Prior to Oldest becoming a Tiger, I volunteered with troops, OA, and the district for  9 years, and no burn out.

As for the Scouts, they are ready and chomping at the bit to Cross Over.  4th grade is when the transition to Scouts begins, at least according to the old BSA Literature as I am told that is no longer the case with the current literature, They were ready, willing and able to cross over. But I trained my Webelos DL replacements the way I was trained.

 

Absolutely.  Being a troop leader is work, but rarely exhausting.  More importantly, many opportunities to recharge like sitting around camp fires and laughing with friends.  Younger cubs was lots of work.  It can really burn you out.  

The scary point is the work is inversed with the perceived benefit.  Boy scouts has visible growth after every camp out and every activity and has managable effort.  Tiger cubs was lots of work for the den leaders with little perceived benefit.  

Edited September 7, 2021 by fred8033

[malraux]

In addition, by bringing in very young kids into the pack, you really limit what the older youth can do. G2SS rules for the pack have to assume that many of the activities will be available for those kindergarteners. It gets limiting for the older cubs.

 

In addition, I'll agree with the statements of burnout. Running a weekly event for 1st graders is tough. 

 

Looking at how other scouting organizations around the world do things, they tend to break up the k-5th grade youth into two different units. I think if we did that, it might help a lot. The younger group might meet monthly, do some fun stuff, and then be done. Then the older group can work almost like a 3 year Webelos program that focuses more on outdoor skills, commensurate with the older kids' greater independence.

[fred8033]

3 hours ago, malraux said:

In addition, by bringing in very young kids into the pack, you really limit what the older youth can do. G2SS rules for the pack have to assume that many of the activities will be available for those kindergarteners. It gets limiting for the older cubs.

 

In addition, I'll agree with the statements of burnout. Running a weekly event for 1st graders is tough. 

 

Looking at how other scouting organizations around the world do things, they tend to break up the k-5th grade youth into two different units. I think if we did that, it might help a lot. The younger group might meet monthly, do some fun stuff, and then be done. Then the older group can work almost like a 3 year Webelos program that focuses more on outdoor skills, commensurate with the older kids' greater independence.

I think splitting cubs might be a good idea.  k,1,2 in one.  3,4,5 in another.  

[Eagledad]

36 minutes ago, fred8033 said:

I think splitting cubs might be a good idea.  k,1,2 in one.  3,4,5 in another.  

The maturity between 1 and 2 is huge. The 2nd graders are about the same maturity of 3 and 4. 

My thinking is pre-K, K and first grade. 

And, I being told by my adult kids that kindergarten is the new first grade. So, it could get worse.

While I think the Webelos program is pretty well designed, I believe the 2nd year Webelos need to get more involve with Troops. Not a lot, but enough to make the program more fun. Webelos is where the packs suffer the most with adult burnout. So, if the troops could assist the leaders with program, that would be a huge influence toward improving the crossover numbers.

Barry

Edited September 7, 2021 by Eagledad

[elitts]

1 hour ago, Eagledad said:

While I think the Webelos program is pretty well designed, I believe the 2nd year Webelos need to get more involve with Troops. Not a lot, but enough to make the program more fun. Webelos is where the packs suffer the most with adult burnout. So, if the troops could assist the leaders with program, that would be a huge influence toward improving the crossover numbers.

Barry

It's also where adults that were previously happy to run nice clean indoor programs start to cringe at the idea of actually camping and hiking.

Edited September 7, 2021 by elitts

[Eagledad]

58 minutes ago, elitts said:

It's also where adults that were previously happy to run nice clean indoor programs start to cringe at the idea of actually camping and hiking.

So true. I have a lot of stories here. I'm sure elitts does as well. One story is that I gave up the CM position to be the Webelos leader of 16 scouts. No, we aren't supposed to do that. 

Barry

[Eagle94-A1]

2 hours ago, elitts said:

It's also where adults that were previously happy to run nice clean indoor programs start to cringe at the idea of actually camping and hiking.

UNDERSTATEMENT! Don't get me started on this. You really see the difference when it comes to retention at the Scouts BSA level.

[fred8033]

10 hours ago, Eagledad said:

So true. I have a lot of stories here. I'm sure elitts does as well. One story is that I gave up the CM position to be the Webelos leader of 16 scouts. No, we aren't supposed to do that. 

Barry

IMHO ... Webelos den leader is the absolute best role in cub scouts.  CM is fun.  CC is interesting.  BUT, Webelos den leader gets to take these cubs (and usually their dads) to special events, camping, visiting troops, etc.  ... Absolutely the best role in cubs.  ... IMHO, hardly a give up CM.  More like run from CM to WDL.  ... AND, WDL weirdly feels like less work than many of the other roles.  I'm not sure why, but it was.  

[Eagledad]

8 hours ago, fred8033 said:

IMHO ... Webelos den leader is the absolute best role in cub scouts.  CM is fun.  CC is interesting.  BUT, Webelos den leader gets to take these cubs (and usually their dads) to special events, camping, visiting troops, etc.  ... Absolutely the best role in cubs.  ... IMHO, hardly a give up CM.  More like run from CM to WDL.  ... AND, WDL weirdly feels like less work than many of the other roles.  I'm not sure why, but it was.  

I look at it as providence. I was an ASM while I was the CM, so I gained the experience to know what the Webelos needed for a FUN program. While we couldn't find another Webelos leader, three volunteered to assist. And, the other parents were great. So, I did the planning and let the parents lead the activities. I think we did it right because one scout who went to a different troop told me at his Eagle ceremony that his Webelos experience was the most fun he had in scouts.

Barry

[FireStone]

Scouts UK now has a Squirrels program starting at age 4. It's only a matter of time before the BSA acts on the realization that they are missing out on this additional year of collecting dues instead of waiting until they are 5-year-old Kindergarteners.

i skipped the Lions year with my daughter. I still feel Tigers is even too young. 2nd grade is the ideal minimum age to start scouting.

On the original subject of cost, my Pack does one unified neckerchief for all ranks. I don't require my dens have the handbooks, everything is available online. And we don't require the uniform pants. Just shirt and hat.

We've been doing the single neckerchief thing long enough to say that they neckerchiefs do last 5 years in most cases, we have very rarely ever had to replace one (just one time if i recall), they cost a buck less than the BSA ones, and they are custom with our Pack number embroidered. We save each family $45 just by having a single neckerchief.

[Ojoman]

I would encourage units to have a uniform bank/exchange where they collect uniforms that kids have outgrown. They are called 'experienced' not 'used'. A uniform can go through multiple cubs before it wears out. Packs can also go with a pack t-shirt. They can be easily made with a silk screen kit or ordered on line or through a local t-shirt design company. Often referred to as 'class B' uniforms it can be an inexpensive way to 'uniform' cubs until perhaps a birthday or Christmas when they get the balance of their uniform. Also, if you have someone that sews, the red vests are a good way to 'uniform' in a manner of speaking and the vest becomes the keepsake so the shirts can be 'recycled' to a new family. 

[BetterWithCheddar]

I spent about $65 yesterday to outfit my new Lion Scout and we just stuck to the basics:

• Uniform Shirt: $33
• Lion Scout Kit: $13
• Neckerchief: $13
• Shoulder Loops: $5

Our Cubmaster advised us to skip the t-shirt if we thought our son would remain in Scouts. I'm not sure that's consistent with the BSA's brand guide, but I thought it was a good suggestion. Kids get excited about the uniform, and they can wear it multiple years. They'll only be Lions for about 6 months (depending on the crossover date).

I'm a pretty enthusiastic parent with adequate resources and I can't believe the "crap" the BSA tries to tack on. As a Cub Scout, I had one hat and one neckerchief slide and now they want us to buy a new one every year? C'mon. We ventured to our council office yesterday to buy a uniform shirt and found the council sells them with the CSP and World Crest emblem already sewn on.  At first, that seemed convenient, but then I realized they tacked on a World Crest emblem ring, which takes up 1/4 of a tiny blue uniform (can someone enlighten me on the purpose of the ring?). I asked for a blank uniform shirt, which they retrieved from the back.

I've always heard the argument that Scouts is a still cheaper than most sports; however, I'm not sure that adage holds. Registration and uniforming for a new Cub Scout can easily reach $150. Elementary-age kids can try a new sport at the YMCA for $60 in my area.

With respect to the comments on the younger Cubs burning out ~ I'm keenly aware of that possibility. I'm putting together a very simple calendar for my Lion Den. All uniforming will be on a best efforts basis.

 

[MattR]

2 hours ago, BetterWithCheddar said:

I've always heard the argument that Scouts is a still cheaper than most sports; however, I'm not sure that adage holds.

Probably holds in high school, but certainly not the age of your son.

I'd suggest, just like you're doing, handle it locally. I always thought the neckerchiefs was about being able to find your den at a pack meeting. Find another way to mark their uniforms, hat, whatever is cheap, and save some money.

Or just don't worry about the changing uniform. It's better to keep the program fun. That's where the burnout stems from. My son and I took off 2 years in the middle of cubs because I saw it coming, knew what scouts would be like and didn't want my son souring on cub scouts.

[skeptic]

Whether Cubs or any other level, the uniform is optional, though has its place within reason.  I have seen many units that simply encourage whatever families can handle, and they also do keep closets.  Many use a basic T with the neckerchief, especially at the Cub level.  You can, with a bit of effort, make your own T's too.  At some point, hopefully the youth might be in complete uniform, but it is a tool.  The PROGRAM si what is important.  Worldwide, a very basic shirt of some kind with a neckerchief IS the uniform.  Do not stress, but do work on keeping it fun and educational as best you can.  JMHO