Getting involved

[Dave951]

I started my involvement with BSA back in the late 60s with Troop 134 in Charlotte, NC. The troop fell apart, I found the "fumes" and went my way, but later my dad (our Asst Scoutmaster) told me the real reason the troop failed- adults not committed to the future of the kids. So as my sons became old enough to get into Scouting, I got involved right with them with Troop 415 Old Hickory Council in NC. They made Eagle, one with palms. Of their friends in the troop, all of them made Eagle. Each of those young men has had amazing lives as adults in their career fields. The reason, we had a cadre of seriously involved adults that made sure that the program had the support for the kids to succeed whether as a Scoutmaster, Asst Scoutmaster or just a dad or mom who cared.

Fast forward to recent times. My sons are 20 years removed from Scouting but we still talk about those days. I was having dinner in a local restaurant when a big guy carrying a small baby came up and addressed me by name. I didn't recognize him till he told me his name. The years melted away and then instead of a big grown man, under the beard and adult eyes, I again saw the boy. Last time I saw him, he was being awarded Eagle and it seemed as if it was yesterday we last saw each other as we talked about Scouting. The part that really hit me was his appreciation of what we did for the troop back in the day. Now this young man and his young family are going to get involved in a troop as soon as the tyke is old enough.

So to my point. I make no apologies for being a competition shooter. But recently, I've found that Scouting has a shortage of qualified, certified instructors in muzzle loading shooting sports and that's my competition of choice. A while back, I was discussing the shortage of volunteers in muzzle loading in Scouting with some fellow competitors and we decided to do something about it to help Scouting. We got certified, we secured support, we put in the time at Camp Raven Knob in the Mountain Man program, namely, muzzle loading. It was a huge success. We recently resumed our activities last summer in both Camp Bud Shiele and Camp Raven Knob in working with Scouts in muzzle loading. We formed a Charter Club within the National Muzzle Loading Rifle Association whose focus is on education and instruction. Through the summer, it has become very clear, that the shortage of certified instructors in muzzle loading has only become worse. Had we not been available, neither camp would have had a muzzle loading program at all. Our charter club is a finite number of people, we need more adults and Scout leaders to get certified to pitch in, whether it's with us or at another camp, the point is to have a safe, fun program for Scouts to participate in. So to that end, after my wandering dissertation an announcement of our next activity-

 

The NRA Basic Muzzleloading Course is going to be offered on 10/9 by the Yadkin Valley Rangers, a National Muzzle Loading Rifle Association Charter Club dedicated to instruction and education. This is the first course on the path to becoming an NRA Muzzleloading Instructor. Location of the course is Camp Raven Knob in NC. Scouters are encouraged to take this course as a step towards becoming a Certified Instructor who can organize or hold a Scouting muzzle loading event. Course duration is one day and will begin at 8a in the training center at Camp Raven Knob. Cost for the Course is $60 for NMLRA members and $85 for non NMLRA members. Included in this cost- NMLRA members lunch, ammo, course materials. For non NMLRA members, the cost includes lunch, ammo, course materials and a 1yr digital membership to the NMLRA. Prepayment is required to reserve a seat. For more information please contact-

YadkinValleyRangers@gmail.com subject- Course Info.

The rest of the Instructor course series is being planned for late November. To be a certified NRA Muzzleloading Instructor, you must take the Basic Course, Basic Instructor Training and Muzzleloading Instructor courses.

 

[Dave951]

Here's a couple pix from the range-

 

The day starts with a safety brief and a quick history lesson

 

Then on to the fun part

Best shot of the summer at Camp Raven Knob that year, an 11yo daughter of a Scoutmaster

Evenings that first year were an open shoot at the main range back in the camp. Lots of ammo expended, much fun was had by the Scouts.

[RememberSchiff]

@Dave951 great posts. These members may also find them interesting.

@Armymutt @walk in the woods@Eagle94-A1

@JoeBob @ShootingSports @InquisitiveScouter

Edited August 21, 2021 by RememberSchiff

[David CO]

1 hour ago, RememberSchiff said:

@Dave951 great posts. These members may also find them interesting.

@Armymutt @walk in the woods@Eagle94-A1

@JoeBob @ShootingSports @InquisitiveScouter

Don't know if Stosh is still lurking about.  I believe he was into Civil War reenactments.  Must know a thing or two about black powder muskets. 

Do scouts use round shot or Minie balls?

I like the Hall rifle.  unusual weapon.  Sort of a cross between a breach loader and a muzzle loader.

Edited August 21, 2021 by David CO

[Dave951]

10 hours ago, David CO said:

Don't know if Stosh is still lurking about.  I believe he was into Civil War reenactments.  Must know a thing or two about black powder muskets. 

Do scouts use round shot or Minie balls?

I like the Hall rifle.  unusual weapon.  Sort of a cross between a breach loader and a muzzle loader.

So far, all our instructors are North South Skirmish Association competitors and we are quite well versed in minie ball accuracy. We aren't reenactors, we shoot live ammunition for score, including artillery. I can personally vouch for that as I'm on a 6lb rifled howitzer crew. In our effort, we have donated powder and caps from Schuetzen. We had 5 muskets donated to augment our own collections of muzzleloaders. There are a couple of "sutlers" who cater to the Civil War small arms collector and competitor who provide logistic support to keep those muskets running. One of our members does presentations with various Civil War groups and receives an honorarium which goes to purchase lead which we cast into minies and some round ball.

So a brief run down on how we conduct our sessions. A day is generally divided into morning and afternoon with 2 sessions per. In each session, there will generally be at least 2 "relays" of live fire sometimes more. We flex this general plan around to get the most time on the firing line for the Scouts. First and foremost a safety brief with range commands. Then we move into a short history lesson with lots of cool "show n tell" with everything from flintlocks all the way to the last muzzleloading guns in common use, namely the Civil War. We then get to the meat of the session, live fire with standard patch round ball guns. We have the Scouts fire a number of shots with those and then we move on to the muskets. The muskets we use are 1863 Remington Contracts aka  "Zouave". All the time the Scouts are there, we are teaching constantly but they don't know it. First they learn safety, loading and shooting accurately with patch round ball. Then we move into using minies and muskets and repeat safety loading and marksmanship. The benefit of the minie system is that wiping between shots isn't necessary meaning far more time shooting. We also change the loading procedure from the "loading table" with the patch round ball guns, to loading on the line in the presence of an instructor. The instructor holds the ammunition supply on his person in a cartridge box which the kids think is way cool. The instructor will issue one round to the Scout who loads. The instructor will then issue one cap for the Scout to put on the gun. All the time, the instructor is very close to monitor the procedure for safety and to take control of the gun if necessary. All the time the Scouts are shooting, we're working on their marksmanship (we're competition shooters after all!). By the end of the day, most Scouts can pick off a Saltine cracker hanging on a string at 25yd with a Civil War musket. Last item of the day is volley fire. The Scouts are taught a modified version of Civil War drill and will fire at a 2ft square piece of drywall in a volley. They love watching the drywall dust fly as the minies riddle the sheetrock.

So we have patch round ball v minie. The issue we've found with using minies, is that unless you shoot them all the time and truly understand how to use them, they'll be a problem. Since that's what we shoot all the time, we know minies pretty thoroughly. The issue with using a minie in a 50cal camp gun is rifling. Most conventional muzzleloading guns aren't set up for minies and the minie molds that are available for a 50cal don't take the rifling issue into account. Well, we've designed a minie that should work just fine in a Scouting setting in a 50cal gun. The mold is being cut as this is being written and we'll test it as soon as possible. If it works, then we can shoot minies in any 50cal gun available. Will it make a target rifle from a craptastic plastic camp gun? Probably not, but if it's stable to 50yd with good accuracy, then we have a winning design that can be used by instructor who is willing to learn the minie system.

What this brings us to is how to make a successful muzzleloading program. Scouts love to shoot and Scouts today have notoriously short attention spans. That doesn't usually work too well in round ball muzzleloading. What we're trying to do is solve the issue of the instructor shortage, increase the throughput of youth of a camp program to impact the maximum number of Scouts possible and design a program that can be utilized in as many camps as possible with the resources at hand. We feel that our unique experience in muzzleloading competition gives us insight into solutions that can be taught and implemented by those willing to work. Having been in Scouting I recognize that there are some politics endemic to Scouting but guys, we have to drop the politics and understand the goal is working with the kids. Your Wood Badge doesn't mean squat if you don't use it to benefit the maximum number of Scouts you can in any camp at any time. That's my soapbox and I'll gladly stand on it.

Here one round of ammunition has just been issued to the Scout who has loaded his musket. He's about to be issued a cap and then will fire. What the Scout doesn't realize is that he's being coached on his marksmanship at the same time. On this particular session, he was the first to nail a Saltine with a musket.

 

And the results of volley fire. The kids had a ball repelling the drywall horde led the by the infamous Col Mustard. The mustard pack seems to make it's way onto many of our target materials. Apples vaporize pretty well with a minie too. The young man in the Federal uniform is a Scout that was attending camp that summer and heard he would get to shoot Civil War muskets. He's interested in reenacting and now has quite the story to tell.

 

 

[David CO]

7 minutes ago, Dave951 said:

By the end of the day, most Scouts can pick off a Saltine cracker hanging on a string at 25yd with a Civil War musket.

Good idea using modern-day saltines.  It might not be able to penetrate hardtack.  

[Dave951]

43 minutes ago, David CO said:

Good idea using modern-day saltines.  It might not be able to penetrate hardtack.  

Saltine is a smaller target. Ritz at 25yd presents about the same aspect ratio as an 8moa black. Hardtack is way too easy. They're more fun at 100yd with the howitzer.

[ShootingSports]

Awesome posts.  

 

FYI. Full Blackpowder Instructor course is being offered at Philmont Training Center Sept. 26-Oct 2.  Will cover both the Basic course and the Instructor course.

 

W