Chapter 11 Announced - Part 5 - RSA Ruling

[Eagle1993]

Any update on the hearing today?  I didn't see one but may have missed it.

[ThenNow]

1 minute ago, Eagle1993 said:

Any update on the hearing today?  I didn't see one but may have missed it.

2PM ET.

[yknot]

13 hours ago, Eagle1993 said:

I understand the point and I agree there was a broader issue in society.  But right now, BSA is the only organization ever to have anything close to 84,000 claims of sex abuse.   So, if this is a problem everywhere, why doesn’t 4H, Girl Scouts, Big Brothers, YMCA, the Boys Club, etc, have tens of thousands of claims?

4-H is older than scouting and every year has enrolled substantially more youth than scouting. I think when scouting was at 2.2 million, they were at 4 million. It involves youth in many of the same activities, but the program aspects of how they are administered are different than scouting. We've discussed this before in this forum, but if you google 4H lawsuits for child abuse you come up with very few. It does not appear to be as much of an issue despite the higher visiblity of CSA cases over the past couple decades.  Or don't rely on google. Just recall how many headlines you've seen in your state over the past 10 years concerning scout leaders, religious leaders, and teachers vs. 4H leaders. 

Girl Scouts is about a 100 years old as well. If you google for lawsuits again you come up with comparatively few. It's interesting to note that cases that do appear generally identify a male abuser. This is one of the major differences between scouting and other youth organizations. The most generally accepted statistic is that 88% of perpetrators of child sexual abuse of both girl and boy victims are male. Other organizations traditionally have been open to more adult female involvement than Boy Scouting. which may or may not have an impact on the number of incidences.

There is a lot we don't know about CSA. 

 

 

[CynicalScouter]

38 minutes ago, Eagle1993 said:

Any update on the hearing today?  I didn't see one but may have missed it.

Hearing Date

2021

Hearing scheduled for 8/30/2021 at 02:00 PM at US Bankruptcy Court, 824 Market St., 6th Fl., Courtroom #2, Wilmington, Delaware

Agenda (and zoom link) https://casedocs.omniagentsolutions.com/cmsvol2/pub_47373/49aca881-6256-4550-a8f6-e93d204a36ac_6124.pdf

[mrjohns2]

18 minutes ago, yknot said:

There is a lot we don't know about CSA. 

Agreed, not a lot known. 
 

I am very sure 4H and Girl Scouts would have at least 2 orders of magnitude less camping then BSA. 

[CynicalScouter]

Offered with a grain of salt: Hartford is upping its offer to $800 million

 

[CynicalScouter]

Debtor/BSA allowed to start even though the fight is technically TCC/Coalition vs. Century.

Lauria addressing court: status update. Thank you for prompt ruling on RSA. We have not asked for order entering the RSA with the two rejections. Hartford is asserting that it has an administrative claim if the RSA is officially entered/put in effect. We are evaluating what to do next. We'll get back in next couple of days. We have NOT come back to court for an official order to enter the RSA. Had productive mediation. Cautiously optimistic.

Now going to start the fights. Will discuss in next post.

[ThenNow]

15 minutes ago, CynicalScouter said:

Offered with a grain of salt: Hartford is upping its offer to $800 million

If true, tells me it's a sweet deal even at that number. 

[CynicalScouter]

Attorney for TCC

We are here for data on policies with NO aggregate limits, meaning they are uncapped. If we assume the values in the TDP are accurate, and IF we are assuming that AND assuming a very conservative estimate, and IF we treat this every benefit of every doubt to Century/INA, there' a liability policies may have to pay out 16,000 claims valued at $6B-22B with total liability and actual pay outs of $4.4B-$11B.

Century's been pleading poverty so we asked: how much can Century pay? What is Century's reserve? What agreements are there between INA/Chubb/Century? We know that Chubb has been funding Century and we know that from Chubb's financials. We are simply asking: how much can you pay? Century's response is: we'll meet and confer. So we asked for docs. And Century just dropped off 6 boxes, most of which we knew. The rest was useless.

We don't know what Century's reserves are. We don't know what is reserved for BSA. We don't know anything. So we want to know. Chubb or Century: show what you are capable of paying. We have NO idea what is available. So you cannot evaluate a plan that Century can pay AND what the Chubb backstop is. Century's claiming it cannot pay, but Chubb's had a banner year. Show us the documents of what it CAN pay. Not what it is PREPARED to pay.

Judge: what theory is this request based on? What is the basis that you can ask? What rule does that come from? What theory? I understand why you WANT it, but what law or rule says you are entitled?

Attorney: Estate evaluation. How much is the plan worth? There was a lawsuit between BSA and Century. We are trying to help figure out how much Century. You want us to believe you can't pay much, so prove it. We are looking at this from a practical and legal perspective. These policies are designed to protect claimants. In some states, some claimants can make DIRECT assertions/claims against Century. But if we don't get this information, we'll keep objecting to the plan.

Judge: not true. under the RSA, the TCC already AGREED to this, even WITHOUT the Century data. So it is not true you will keep objection: TCC is on record that it will accept a plan WITHOUT this data from Century.

Attorney: Maybe the RSA never takes effect. Maybe the plan never takes effect. But if the RSA does stand, you are right, Century goes off into the settlement trust.

(NOTE: The judge just cruched the TCC. The TCC just agreed to an RSA that did NOT include Century and Chubb's data, and so they cannot now say we'll object to a plan without that data.)

Judge: What is the LEGAL basis for this? Not practical, LEGAL basis for this?

Attorney: We are simply asking for financials. Chubb made $3.5B in net profit. If Century is really poor, prove it so the TCC can not make unrealistic demands. We don't want to make a dand for $8B if they don't have it or access to it/Chubb backstop. NOT to gain mediation advantage.

Judge: What is the legal consequence of that 1997 INA deal? That's what parties will have to risk or decide if there is a risk. That's a legal issue this court won't decide.

 

[vol_scouter]

15 hours ago, Eagle1993 said:

I understand the point and I agree there was a broader issue in society.  But right now, BSA is the only organization ever to have anything close to 84,000 claims of sex abuse.   So, if this is a problem everywhere, why doesn’t 4H, Girl Scouts, Big Brothers, YMCA, the Boys Club, etc, have tens of thousands of claims?

Those suits are coming.  Colleagues in those organizations are very concerned and are watching what happens to the BSA with great interest.  The GSUSA may have a relatively low incidence because females are less likely to abuse children, especially girls so the GSUSA may not have as large a problem.  The ineligible volunteer files provided a road map to potential clients for attorneys and the BSA is one of the larger organizations that made it first.

[Eagle1993]

Just now, vol_scouter said:

Those suits are coming.  Colleagues in those organizations are very concerned and are watching what happens to the BSA with great interest.  The GSUSA may have a relatively low incidence because females are less likely to abuse children, especially girls so the GSUSA may not have as large a problem.  The ineligible volunteer files provided a road map to potential clients for attorneys and the BSA is one of the larger organizations that made it first.

The NY window has now closed (August 13).  It will be interesting to compare the various organizations and number of lawsuits/claimants.  

[CynicalScouter]

Judge: TCC has not provided a legal basis for claiming access to this data. NOTHING in the latest plan or the RSA gives a release to Century, or Chubb, etc. So, there is no need for this data NOW.

TCC Attorney: the RSA is not going to be the operative document in its current state. For claimants to determine insurance libility, they need this data.

Lucas for TCC: Can I add comments?

Judge: NO. Only one attorney per party. (This was a massive screwup: it is clear the first TCC lawyer screwed this entire argument for them. Lucas tried to come in and clear up and the judge just scoffed).

Goodman for Coalition: I not an insurance lawyer, I am a bankruptcy attorney. This is crtical for a bankrutpcy. This is a plan confirmation issue. The information we are seeking is relevant no matter how this all ends. BSA will almost certainly file another plan that is accepted by the claimants and their votes. We will see litigation over the releases. The question will be if the suriviors are if they are receiving a substaintal benefit. Are the Century policies worth billions, or nothing? The second path is that BSA will get its plan rejected, so go for toggle plan. The dissenting creditors will also need to know what. Either way, we NEED to value of the INA policies.

Judge: The value of the policies, unless they are settled, how does it matter for the best interests of creditors test?

Goodman: You need to know value of ALL BSA assets, including the INA policies and their values. Survivors may ONLY get 1-3% where other creditors were getting 75-90%. That will be a test of discrimination. We'll never know unless we get that INA data. We don't even know what BALLPARK Century and Chubb are in.

Goodman: One last point: we did NOT have this issue with ANY other insurance company. Century has said it does NOT have the ability to pay (quoting Stang). So, Century has brought this issue front and center.

Edited August 30, 2021 by CynicalScouter

[ThenNow]

WSJ just confirmed a new deal with Hartford. "Boy Scouts are close to a new deal with insurer Hartford on Sex-Abuse Claims...could approach $800M, though negotiations continue."

Edited August 30, 2021 by ThenNow

[CynicalScouter]

6 minutes ago, ThenNow said:

WSJ just confirmed a new deal with Hartford. "Boy Scouts are close to a new deal with insurer Hartford on Sex-Abuse Claims...could approach $800M, though negotiations continue."

This is the fig leaf for TCC/Coalition/FCR to hide under: $650 million Hartford wasn't good enough, we got another $150 million, that's good enough to move ahead with the RSA/Plan 4.0

[Eagle1993]

 

3 minutes ago, ThenNow said:

WSJ just confirmed new $800M deal with Hartford. "Boy Scouts are close to a new deal with insurer Hartford on Sex-Abuse Claims."

I believe the TCC said in a Townhall that Harford represented 40% of total insurance liability.  Does this mean the rest, combined, would be $1.2B?  My guess is that they would want more, but since Hartford got BSA to sign onto a deal, they have them over the barrel.   $800M seems light for 40% of total insurance liability.