Chapter 11 Announced - Part 5 - RSA Ruling

[SiouxRanger]

1 minute ago, David CO said:

IH and COR signatures were required.

Both IH and COR, or just only one?

I seem to recall obtaining the IH signature years ago, but not sure if the IH signature is still required.

[CynicalScouter]

FYI: Here's an annual troop charter from May 1953-1954.

APPLICATION OF INSTITUTION
The [Institution Name]
ADDRESS [Institution Address] HEREBY MAKES APPLICATION FOR THIS ANNUAL TROOP CHARTER AND APPROVES THE TROOP OFFICIALS WHOSE SIGNATURES APPEAR BELOW

DATE 5/26/53 SIGNED [EXECUTIVE OFFICER OF INSTITUTION, ORGANIZATION, OR GROUP] TITLE [Within the Institution]

 

3 minutes ago, SiouxRanger said:

Both IH and COR, or just only one?

Once upon a time the two were the same. The split was I think in the 1950s?

[David CO]

Just now, SiouxRanger said:

Both IH and COR, or just only one?

I seem to recall obtaining the IH signature years ago, but not sure if the IH signature is still required.

The COR signs the applications.  The IH signs the charter renewal, which lists all of the youth and adult members of the unit.  So all members of a unit get signed off by both the IH and COR, but not on the same document.

 

[CynicalScouter]

This is a 1926 Troop Charter Renewal

http://www.troop17bsa.com/uploads/4/5/8/4/4584404/1926.pdf

"Mr. [INSERT NAME] has been selected by us as Scoutmaster, and we recommend that he be commissioned as such. To our personal knowledge he is of good character and qualified to act as a leader of boys in carrying out the Scout program."

Edited August 27, 2021 by CynicalScouter

[SiouxRanger]

4 minutes ago, CynicalScouter said:

FYI: Here's an annual troop charter from May 1953-1954.

APPLICATION OF INSTITUTION
The [Institution Name]
ADDRESS [Institution Address] HEREBY MAKES APPLICATION FOR THIS ANNUAL TROOP CHARTER AND APPROVES THE TROOP OFFICIALS WHOSE SIGNATURES APPEAR BELOW

DATE 5/26/53 SIGNED [EXECUTIVE OFFICER OF INSTITUTION, ORGANIZATION, OR GROUP] TITLE [Within the Institution]

 

Once upon a time the two were the same. The split was I think in the 1950s?

That answers that.

"Ancient" = "the memory of man runneth not to the contrary."

[Gilwell_1919]

14 hours ago, CynicalScouter said:

That is not at all what happened. What a load of misinformation.

BSA never directed people to Abused in Scouting. BSA, per an order of the bankruptcy court, asked in 2020 (not 2019) for all claimants to file a claim with the bankruptcy court, something ALL bankruptcies require. They were also required, per the court's order, to launch an ad campaign to that effect.

Absolutely NONE of which had to do with AIS.

Simultaneously, and COMPLETELY INDEPENDENT of this, AIS launched its OWN ad campaign to get people to file claims THROUGH THEM.

Again, BSA had nothing whatsoever to do with that.

 

Unfortunately, I have first hand knowledge (emails and otherwise) that support my statement, not to mention roundtable powerpoints from our LC in Nov 2019 that detail just that. I take exception to you labeling this "misinformation".

Our LC SE was pointing folks towards AIS after getting clarification from national, and I know this because I was a DC at the time and was following those directives. I am sorry that you may not have been privy to that level of information until now, but it doesn't negate the fact that this is precisely what BSA was telling LCs to do.

However, it is abundantly clear, at least now, there is something very wrong with how this was all set up since some of the the individual lawyers and the AIS coalition are at odds with one another and are sending conflicting information to claimants. When the insurers filed their recent complaint to compel AIS to disclose its formal/informal structure, which the judge approved, I think it solidified that we are about to see an unraveling of whatever machinations they were concocting behind closed doors. Because of what I do for scouting and my national-CO, I have claimant documents that detail the agreement between a claimant and a law group, as well as that law group pushing claimants to the AIS coalition they were apart of. I stand firm that is because those law firms are double dipping (e.g., they want their AIS coalition to be paid, and then they are going to turn-around and hit their clients with another bill from their individual law firms.) What does that mean? It means once the dust settles, claimants are going to receive pennies on the dollar while these law firms eat up a lion's share.

But, that is really not the point of my response. I am here for scouting [full stop]. I want what is best for the youth in our program [full stop]. I am, however, very concerned about how BSA originally handled this, how they continue to handle this by leaving COs out on the limb, and ultimately how the voracious slip-and-fall law groups are playing a Machiavellian game with everyone. Even if the law groups/claimants reject the RSA, the judge could still approve it, which is what I hope happens so the current BSA administration can make amends for what previous administrations did to coverup what was happening, and so our current scouts can continue in a very worthwhile program. 

I absolutely hope BSA continues because BSA is not the folks down in TX or the professional scouters at the LC offices... BSA (*read scouting) is the volunteer scouters trying to provide an unequivocal program to the youth in their respective communities. My concern is that the fallout from all of this is going to make scouting too expensive for underprivileged communities that need it, and that it is going to make it difficult to find COs that are willing to give scouts places to meet and conduct their activities. 

[CynicalScouter]

16 minutes ago, Gilwell_1919 said:

roundtable powerpoints from our LC in Nov 2019 that detail just that

Post please. Thanks. Even just a picture.

Again: if what you are saying is true, and BSA directed claimants to particular LAW FIRMS (not the court) to file a claim against BSA, that is potentially criminal collusion in a bankruptcy proceeding.

So be very, very careful here when you claim that BSA directed claimants to AIS because, again, I am claiming right now that remains misinformation or disinformation.

Post the slide or a photo of a slide that said "AIS".

Edited August 27, 2021 by CynicalScouter

[ThenNow]

4 minutes ago, Gilwell_1919 said:

Our LC SE was pointing folks towards AIS after getting clarification from national, and I know this because I was a DC at the time and was following those directives. I am sorry that you may not have been privy to that level of information until now, but it doesn't negate the fact that this is precisely what BSA was telling LCs to do.

Would you please unpack this a little? I'm not sure I'm following the bouncing ball. Thank you muchly.

[Gilwell_1919]

14 hours ago, David CO said:

That surprises me.  Most people at that level have little to no concern for the lower-income families.

I grew up in scouting, and I am an Eagle Scout. I am dedicated to ensuring every youth has access to the program that made me who I am today. Yes, I spend countless hours and a lot of money to make sure that happens... I don't need a thank you or an award from anyone. My reward is when I see former scouts making signification contributions to our community and nation. 

[Gilwell_1919]

14 hours ago, David CO said:

I agree with you 100% on this point.  Scouting should be an affordable activity.  Unfortunately, its not.  BSA is more interested in providing expensive destination activities for well-heeled families.  That's where the $$$ is.

  

This is why I don't promote HAs. I organize large trips to remote location and make sure it is done in the most inexpensive way possible. Next year, we are flying a group of experienced scouts to remote places in Alaska for two weeks of real back-country trekking. All that will need to be covered is food costs because I have networked enough to get everything else donated. Youth shouldn't be restricted by economics. And yes, I put my money where my mouth is because scouting taught me to do the right thing when no one is looking. 😉

 

[ThenNow]

3 minutes ago, Gilwell_1919 said:

scouting taught me to do the right thing when no one is looking

Thanks for your service, by the way. I was looking...

[ThenNow]

12 minutes ago, CynicalScouter said:

if what you are saying is true, and BSA directed claimants to a particular LAW FIRM (not the court) to file a claim, that is potentially criminal collusion in a bankruptcy proceeding.

To reinforce, this is not just a request from a Scouter, but from me as a victim claimant. This is very important. Whatever you can/would share to corroborate would be helpful. I was told last night that "transparency is Scout-like." I appreciate yours already and, again, in advance. 

[CynicalScouter]

3 minutes ago, ThenNow said:

To reinforce, this is not just a request from a Scouter, but from me as a victim claimant.

Yep.

If BSA National or local councils were doing what @Gilwell_1919 claims (that as part of the bankruptcy proceeding against BSA that BSA was directing claimants to a particular law firm or set of law firms/AIS to file claims/suits against BSA) that gets people in prison or at the very least contempt of court proceedings and disbarment.

Again, @Gilwell_1919: post the slide or a photo of a slide that says "AIS" or "Abused in Scouting".

Edited August 27, 2021 by CynicalScouter

[vol_scouter]

58 minutes ago, SiouxRanger said:

In my unit, the COR has always been a volunteer.

And so, with every signature on an adult application, perhaps the COR has signed on to liability if the adult abuses. And National knew this was a problem, created risk, and gave no warning?

Trustworthy?

The CO is told that the COR should be someone from the CO.  They are to register if they are around the youth.  My experience is that it is made abundantly clear to the CO that they must approve all volunteers.

[vol_scouter]

1 hour ago, David CO said:

Many CO's looked at it that way because it is what their councils were telling them.  Councils constantly lie to the CO's.   

 

Mt experience is entirely the opposite and I have helped to recruit CO's over the years.