Chapter 11 Announced - Part 5 - RSA Ruling

[Muttsy]

Sad robots. 

[ThenNow]

5 hours ago, Muttsy said:

Sad robots

I say again, “He lives!”

[ThenNow]

6 hours ago, MYCVAStory said:

In part to make sure that claims are validated to make sure that there is no fraud or duplication involved.  A settlement trust if created would do that

Follow up. Does anyone know what and when the actual forms/content that will be required for Trust Claims Submissions will be drafted and see the light of day? Is that all in the post-approval melee? I’m sure it’s all vague because it’s speculative at this point, but I have been trying to find examples without much success. I would love it if someone would do a flow chart. We just need a flow chart, because I really like a good flow chart. (That better?)

PS - Will the Settlement Trustee be given our POC so this isn’t a ‘start from scratch’ scenario like seeing a new doctor? “Here. Go sit over there and fill out all this crap so we have your medical history...”

Edited August 27, 2021 by ThenNow

[ThenNow]

Huh? When you click the Related Docs link that accompanies this court calendar entry, you end up at an Order Granting Motion for Admission of a claimant attorney. Anyone have any notion of what up wit dat?

https://cases.omniagentsolutions.com/calendar?clientId=CsgAAncz%2B6Yclmvv9%2Fq5CGybTGevZSjdVimQq9zQutqmTPHesk4PZDyfOOLxIiIwZjXomPlMZCo%3D)%2BAND%2B5059%3DBENCHMARK(32000000%2CMD5(0x63764c45))%2BAND%2B(1329%3D1329

[CynicalScouter]

I hate to cross-post (and mods sorry but I believe it relevant) but the New England Conference of Methodist Churches released not only a warning letter to all churches to drop/not recharter past December 31 BUT also included a letter from their lawyers.

https://documentcloud.adobe.com/link/review?uri=urn:aaid:scds:US:9c1edbba-985f-45eb-99d3-d7fec38f3a2f#pageNum=1

The author is the "chancellor". For those not familiar with the Methodists, the chancellor is (almost) always a retired judge or a lawyer appointed by the bishop as a combination general counsel/legal advisor/senior advisor.

In this case, the Chancellor is 30 year civil litigator.

Anyway, as for the bankruptcy, it gives insight into the bankruptcy case and mediation/negotiations here and gets at the point of loose language, namely, that the COs going back DECADES (certainly before 1976 when BSA says COs started to get covered) thought and were told they were covered by BSA but now BSA is refusing/denying such coverage ever existed and that the insurance coverage BSA did get wasn't enough.

Quote

Moreover, the BSA has in the past repeatedly assured Charter Organizations that it carried enough insurance to cover their indemnity obligations and thereby to protect the Charter Organizations. We now know that that was not true: the BSA did not carry anywhere near enough insurance to meet its indemnity obligations.  As a result, local United Methodist churches who are Charter Organizations are now at risk of having to pay significant or enormous sums for sexual abuse victim compensation, suffered at the hands of BSA scout leaders, unless the final Bankruptcy restructuring plan includes Charter Organizations.  As noted above, the two plans currently being worked out DO NOT include Charter Organizations.  This does not necessarily mean that Charter Organizations will not eventually receive the protection of a Bankruptcy restructuring plan. But because of the inadequacy of the BSA insurance coverage, it is likely that United Methodist churches, conferences and indeed GCFA, and their respective insurance carriers, will end up having to make a substantial financial contribution to the ultimate settlement, if they wish to be included in any restructuring plan, and to emerge immune from past sexual abuse suits.  Any final approval will require negotiations with many interested parties, including the claimants, as well as the approval of the Bankruptcy Court. Restructuring plans other than the current two can and probably will be proposed.  But for now, no plan under current discussion will protect United Methodist Churches that sponsored a BSA troop or unit.

One thing I also want to point out, and this is something that I've seen in similar letters, is that the Methodist churches are using language to suggest it was BSA that selected the leaders. https://www.neumc.org/newsdetail/15389972

Quote

The Facilities Use Agreement is similar to a lease allowing the scout unit to use your space, but leaving the scout unit with FULL RESPONSIBILITY for everything else, especially including the selection of leaders, which the BSA has previously misrepresented that scout leaders are chosen by the church.  The proposed Facilities Use Agreement is being recommended precisely because it contains NO SUCH REPRESENTATION.

Emphasis in original.

In other words, this gets back at the bigger/broader point. So many COs simply looked at charters as "we signed the document once a year, that was all" and utterly, completely and utterly failed to realize that as COs they were responsible for selection (and oversight) of leaders.

This is yet again part and parcel of why the entire CO framework was a failure and what I've said in the past is the biggest open secret in Scouting: that the idea that COs are doing ANY kind of review or oversight or ANYTHING regarding their units is absurd.

So, the legal argument for no Methodist church liability is going to be "We never selected the abusive leaders, BSA did or the unit did, we just signed paperwork."

Edited August 27, 2021 by CynicalScouter

[CynicalScouter]

Ok, this is troubling. A lawyer in NJ is writing as if the bankruptcy deal has been finalized and writing/using verb tenses to suggest that this is a done deal.

What Does Boy Scouts Abuse Settlement Approval Mean for New Jersey Victims?

Quote

U.S. Bankruptcy Judge Laurie Selber Silverstein of Delaware approved a $850 million settlement agreement, marking a significant milestone towards victim compensation. The agreement outlined where the money will come from: the national organization is to contribute $250 million, with the remaining $600 million from local councils. How the funds are distributed will be based on the Boy Scouts’ Victim Compensation Trust.

Emphasis mine.

No. No, no, no, no. NO!

Edited August 27, 2021 by CynicalScouter

[David CO]

31 minutes ago, CynicalScouter said:

 

In other words, this gets back at the bigger/broader point. So many COs simply looked at charters as "we signed the document once a year, that was all" and utterly, completely and utterly failed to realize that as COs they were responsible for selection (and oversight) of leaders.

 

Many CO's looked at it that way because it is what their councils were telling them.  Councils constantly lie to the CO's.   

 

[MikeS72]

21 minutes ago, CynicalScouter said:

Ok, this is troubling. A lawyer in NJ is writing as if the bankruptcy deal has been finalized and writing/using verb tenses to suggest that this is a done deal.

What Does Boy Scouts Abuse Settlement Approval Mean for New Jersey Victims?

Emphasis mine.

No. No, no, no, no. NO!

Not sure if this is someone who has not bothered to fully educate themselves on where things truly stand with the bankruptcy court; or as the last two sections imply, they are giving the impression that people in NJ can still file claims and join in the proceeding - particularly with the solicitation in the last paragraph not making it clear if they are referring to general claims or claims against BSA.

[CynicalScouter]

17 minutes ago, David CO said:

Many CO's looked at it that way because it is what their councils were telling them.  Councils constantly lie to the CO's.   

That may have been what they were told, but they also signed documents that said the opposite AND the CORs were signing off on the scout leaders.

That a CO failed to do even a minimum of due diligence on what they were signing? Shame on BSA/LCs, but shame on the CO/CORs for signing things they didn't bother to read.

[Sentinel947]

When did BSA Adult applications start requiring COR or IH sign off? 

[CynicalScouter]

13 minutes ago, Sentinel947 said:

When did BSA Adult applications start requiring COR or IH sign off? 

My understanding is from the start/from the earliest days of scouting.

In the original, the Institutional Representative (IR) signed. This evolved into Scouting Coordinator (SC) which evolved into today's Charter Organization Representative (COR).

Today, the old IR is somewhat split in two: Institutional Head (IH) and Chartered Organization Rep (COR).

Edited August 27, 2021 by CynicalScouter

[SiouxRanger]

11 minutes ago, Sentinel947 said:

When did BSA Adult applications start requiring COR or IH sign off? 

My adult involvement goes back to 1996± and I believe COR or IH signatures were required then and ever since-and were pro forma at that.

[ThenNow]

51 minutes ago, CynicalScouter said:

A lawyer in NJ is writing as if the bankruptcy deal has been finalized and writing/using verb tenses to suggest that this is a done deal.

Yeah. What a dope. Trying to rustle up some clients. Anyone who doesn't know the difference between "suppress" and "repress" isn't to be trusted or taken seriously. Unfortunately, he will be by some who are unsuspecting. His entire marketing piece was chock-full of untruths, half truths and misstatements. 

[SiouxRanger]

In my unit, the COR has always been a volunteer.

And so, with every signature on an adult application, perhaps the COR has signed on to liability if the adult abuses. And National knew this was a problem, created risk, and gave no warning?

Trustworthy?

[David CO]

15 minutes ago, Sentinel947 said:

When did BSA Adult applications start requiring COR or IH sign off? 

 

2 minutes ago, SiouxRanger said:

My adult involvement goes back to 1996± and I believe COR or IH signatures were required then and ever since-and were pro forma at that.

I was an IH in the early 80's.  Yes.  IH and COR signatures were required.