Chapter 11 Announced - Part 5 - RSA Ruling

[ThenNow]

12 minutes ago, Eagle1993 said:

It will be ugly for them if anything goes sideways.

Um, didn't that sorta just happen?

[ThenNow]

Do any of the Catholic experts have a list of the members of Catholic Mutual?

[T2Eagle]

2 hours ago, SiouxRanger said:

Possibly parishes and dioceses announcing different rules at different times.  Surely, the guidance or directives will be coordinated at some level, not only to prevent initial confusion, but to avoid having to retract guidance or directives at some point.

Ha, ha, ha.  herding Bishops makes herding cats look easy.  the 144 dioceses and 32 Archdioceses you mentioned are 176 independent organizations run by 172 VERY independent Bishops.  A diocese can decide everything for its parishes, but no one short of Pope Francis can decide something for all the Dioceses, and even that gets very complicated.

 

[CynicalScouter]

37 minutes ago, T2Eagle said:

A diocese can decide everything for its parishes, but no one short of Pope Francis can decide something for all the Dioceses, and even that gets very complicated.

Exactly. I see absolutely 0% chance of all the dioceses and archdioceses universally agreeing on anything w/r/t to this issue.

[CynicalScouter]

1 hour ago, ThenNow said:

Also, what's this continuing claim of a confidentiality muzzle when we all know it's been lifted?

I think there's two different confidentiality items here:

1) "We can't tell you the number" is one. THAT has been lifted but some councils are still pretending it is binding. The fact that so many councils have released their numbers proves that's a fib.

2) "We can't tell you because we are in negotiations to sell local properties" is another that may be in play. Look at the language here.

Quote

Because of confidentiality requirements, we cannot at this time provide exact details of how we will fund our settlement contribution, but we promise to do so as soon as plans finalize and confidentiality restrictions are lifted.

In other words, the NUMBER is no longer confidential, but HOW the LC will pay may be if there's a deal being struck in the background

[PeterHopkins]

Although the United States Conference fo Catholic Bishops doesn't appear to have any authority to bind any individual diocese regarding chartering BSA units, it's possible it or one of its committees could consider the matter.

https://www.usccb.org/about

[ThenNow]

10 minutes ago, CynicalScouter said:

In other words, the NUMBER is no longer confidential, but HOW the LC will pay may be if there's a deal being struck in the background

Yeah, yeah.  I know. But they be talking to the peeps who are footing the bill, in the moment and going forward. The honest thing is to say, "We are required to contribute $1.3B, but are still in the process of determining how to convert the Pollock, Klimt, deKoonig and Picasso into cash. Stay tuned." Something like that.

Edited August 23, 2021 by ThenNow

[CynicalScouter]

11 minutes ago, PeterHopkins said:

Although the United States Conference fo Catholic Bishops doesn't appear to have any authority to bind any individual diocese regarding chartering BSA units, it's possible it or one of its committees could consider the matter.

Right: consider. And the Catholic Committee on Scouting works with the US Conference on Scouting issues.

But let me say this for third time: the Catholic dioceses do not have a single "boss" (other than Pope Francis) who can make a universally binding decision on all of them. They can't all agree on something as mission-critical as when the appropriate age for the Sacrament of Confirmation is.

Again, stop thinking of this as a strict hierarchy. All 170+ bishops and archbishops are equally authoritative in their own dioceses. Within an Ecclesiastical Province, the Archbishop is the first-among-equals and tries to work among the area bishops, but that is ALL he is.

What I suspect will happen already happened: those dioceses that are most concerned about liability have now either appeared in their own right OR joined the Ad Hoc Committee of Catholic Dioceses. But they are there as equals. The Archbishop of Atlanta, by virtue of being the first-among-equals of the Ecclesiastical Province of Atlanta does NOT have the power to dictate to the Bishop of Charleston about anything.

Period.

[CynicalScouter]

14 minutes ago, ThenNow said:

Yeah, yeah.  I know. But they be talking to the peeps who are footing the bill, in the moment and going forward. The honest thing is to say, "We are required to contribute $1.3B, but are still in the process of determining how to convert the Pollock, Klimt, deKoonig and Picasso into cash. Stay tuned." Something like that.

Right, we have this weird situation where

1. Some councils are giving out the number they owe AND how they'll pay for it.
2. Some councils are NOT giving out the number, but are saying how they'll pay for it (selling Camp X)
3. Some councils are giving out the the number, but not how they'll pay exactly.
4. Most councils have still not said a single word to any of their adult leaders or parents.

[PeterHopkins]

15 minutes ago, CynicalScouter said:

But let me say this for third time: the Catholic dioceses do not have a single "boss" (other than Pope Francis) who can make a universally binding decision on all of them. They can't all agree on something as mission-critical as when the appropriate age for the Sacrament of Confirmation is.

Agreed. The USCCB could suggest a strategy or plan regarding rechartering, but each bishop or archbishop will make his own decision (or do nothing).

Edited August 23, 2021 by PeterHopkins
typo

[PeterHopkins]

My council conducted a Key 3 Fireside Chat over Zoom last week. The council reported that it has the ability to pay its share under the RSA without selling any camp properties. They said they could not tell us the number, but we should be prepared to hear a very large amount reported in the media in the near term.

[ThenNow]

6 minutes ago, PeterHopkins said:

They said they could not tell us the number, but we should be prepared to hear a very large amount reported in the media in the near term.

"Honey, we're going to have a huge tax bill this year. Watch my Facebook posts over the next few days for the amount. I promise, we shouldn't have to sell your car or wedding ring."

As a relative outsider, this is a very weird movie. I shoulda checked the Rotten Tomatoes before I bought it. 

Edited August 23, 2021 by ThenNow

[PeterHopkins]

4 minutes ago, ThenNow said:

"Honey, we're going to have a huge tax bill this year. Watch my Facebook posts over the next few days for the amount. I promise, we shouldn't have to sell your car or wedding ring."

Their intention was to give reassurance that none of the camps would need to be sold and to praise those who had made good financial decisions on behalf of the council in the past, which put the council in a position to meet its obligations.

At the time of the call, they were not permitted to disclose their share of the amount in the RSA.

[yknot]

16 minutes ago, CynicalScouter said:

Right, we have this weird situation where

1. Some councils are giving out the number they owe AND how they'll pay for it.
2. Some councils are NOT giving out the number, but are saying how they'll pay for it (selling Camp X)
3. Some councils are giving out the the number, but not how they'll pay exactly.
4. Most councils have still not said a single word to any of their adult leaders or parents.

I think some councils that are selling camp properties are loathe to spell that out until the last minute especially in councils where the camps are all well utilized. They will want to wait to reveal that after it is pretty much a fait accomplit.

 

 

[MYCVAStory]

1 minute ago, PeterHopkins said:

At the time of the call, they were not permitted to disclose their share of the amount in the RSA.

Just as a reminder, because it is part of the bankruptcy "deal" all Council contributions will be a part of the disclosure.  That said, that information like all others is open to objection.  The TCC has maintained strongly that claimants have the right to know before they vote.