SiouxRanger Posted August 23, 2021 Share Posted August 23, 2021 I have checked the website for the National Catholic Committee On Scouting and cannot find any mention of National's bankruptcy or rechartering. Curiously, the address of the Committee is in Irving, TX. Implying some measure of being an extension of National? Certainly not able to conduct its business if National opens its mail-I don't know if National staff does open the Committee's mail, but seems strange that the Catholic Committee does not have its own office with National having its own liaison staff to the Catholic Committee. Do other religious groups have such connections to National? Also, no mention of National's bankruptcy on the Committee's site for my Diocese. I sent an email inquiry for guidance. A unit faces finding meeting space, storage space for equipment, parking space for a unit trailer, along with considerations of encouraging scouts to finish up their next rank advancement, especially Eagle, before the unit faces the recharter unknown. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CynicalScouter Posted August 23, 2021 Share Posted August 23, 2021 3 minutes ago, SiouxRanger said: I have checked the website for the National Catholic Committee On Scouting and cannot find any mention of National's bankruptcy or rechartering. All of this is happening at the diocese-by-diocese level. Dallas and at least one or two other dioceses have already switched to facilities-use-only agreements. Moreover, the dioceses are appear in the bankruptcy as dioceses or as part of the Ad Hoc Committee of Dioceses. The National Catholic Committee On Scouting is not in anyway involved (legally) in the bankruptcy. Also, given the hush hush nature of the transactions behind the scenes, I'm not surprised and why the letters from the Methodists are so shocking here. When the Diocese of Dallas tossed its units out, it was not sent out as a letter or posted on a website. For the Methodists to be this vocal and public about it means it is to send a message to BSA: we are not to be trifled with. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CynicalScouter Posted August 23, 2021 Share Posted August 23, 2021 (edited) 13 minutes ago, SiouxRanger said: Curiously, the address of the Committee is in Irving, TX. Implying some measure of being an extension of National? Certainly not able to conduct its business if National opens its mail-I don't know if National staff does open the Committee's mail, but seems strange that the Catholic Committee does not have its own office with National having its own liaison staff to the Catholic Committee. Do other religious groups have such connections to National? No, because unlike the Methodists and the LDS, there is NOT enough interest in staffing a full time position for this. There is no money for them to have a full time, paid person that does nothing by Catholic scouting nationally. The committee is NOT an extension of National, and if BSA staffers are opening mail addressed to the committee without permission, that's a felony. That said, there are lots of smaller volunteer organizations who use the address for mailing purposes of some larger entity that they are attached/affiliated with because they don't have the money or dedicated staff. The other reason is that unlike LDS (which has a national hierarchical structure) the Catholic Dioceses operate as individual, autonomous units. All that the National Committee on Catholic Scouting does is set standards for the religious awards, etc. It is up to the dioceses to decide if they will have scouting units attached to the churches and on what terms and that will vary from diocese to diocese. Quote The National Catholic Committee on Scouting® (NCCS) is a church committee of concerned Catholic Laity and Clergy which is advisory to the Boy Scouts of America (BSA) and relates to the United States Conference of Catholic Bishops (USCCB) through its USCCS Episcopal Liaison Edited August 23, 2021 by CynicalScouter Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David CO Posted August 23, 2021 Share Posted August 23, 2021 58 minutes ago, fred8033 said: I don't believe that's true at all. BSA has been stuck walking a fine course between a long list of societal changes. BSA has not been walking a fine course. It has been moving decidedly and steadily to the left. BSA is now a left-wing organization. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CynicalScouter Posted August 23, 2021 Share Posted August 23, 2021 (edited) 3 minutes ago, David CO said: BSA has not been walking a fine course. It has been moving decidedly and steadily to the left. BSA is now a left-wing organization. I think this thread is about the bankruptcy, not another venue for the millionth version of "Girls + Gays = BSA bad". Edited August 23, 2021 by CynicalScouter 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThenNow Posted August 23, 2021 Share Posted August 23, 2021 5 minutes ago, David CO said: BSA is now a left-wing organization. THAT explains everything! BSA is circling the drain because it lost a wing. Man. I wish I had thought of that... 2 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CynicalScouter Posted August 23, 2021 Share Posted August 23, 2021 The August 25 hearing is now officially cancelled. https://casedocs.omniagentsolutions.com/cmsvol2/pub_47373/054bc42a-38fa-439a-9cfa-34e99c75f016_6106.pdf Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThenNow Posted August 23, 2021 Share Posted August 23, 2021 2 minutes ago, CynicalScouter said: The August 25 hearing is now officially cancelled. https://casedocs.omniagentsolutions.com/cmsvol2/pub_47373/054bc42a-38fa-439a-9cfa-34e99c75f016_6106.pdf Dang it. That impacts my revenue trickle. Now, I have to cancel the food truck and outdoor big screen. I've been making some serious coin airing these. Korean BBQ on Wheels will be upset, as will the neighbors. Tanc is a celebrity. We place bets on when his pen will burst as he chews on it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SiouxRanger Posted August 23, 2021 Share Posted August 23, 2021 In accounting, I believe it is a technique to separate certain functions to prevent fraud. Such as, the department responsible for sending out bills, does not collect the money. A different group collects the money, and a third group compares the bills sent by the one dept., to the funds received by the other dept. If the two lists don't match, something is amiss. One would think, given National's track record on lack of disclosure of abuse claims received by National, that insurers will insist on having a role monitoring future reports and claims. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SiouxRanger Posted August 23, 2021 Share Posted August 23, 2021 Why is the Hartford sweet deal not a "preference?" That doctrine is not applicable to Ch. 11 bankruptcy cases? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CynicalScouter Posted August 23, 2021 Share Posted August 23, 2021 (edited) 6 minutes ago, SiouxRanger said: One would think, given National's track record on lack of disclosure of abuse claims received by National, that insurers will insist on having a role monitoring future reports and claims. VERY early on, even before the bankruptcy, BSA sued several insurance companies for refusal to pay out on claims. The insurance company defense, in part, was that BSA lied to them when they entered into the insurance plans decades ago about just how much sexual abuse was going on at the time (and that therefore the policies were void). Here's one such suit (2013) https://www.dallasnews.com/news/2013/07/18/boy-scouts-of-america-sue-two-insurance-companies-for-refusing-to-pay-settlement-in-sex-abuse-case/ and another involving Hartford (2018) https://www.insurancebusinessmag.com/us/news/breaking-news/boy-scouts-of-america-battle-insurers-over-coverage-for-sex-abuse-scandal-119599.aspx Quote The Hartford Accident and Indemnity Co. and First State Insurance Co. in Texas have both turned their back on the BSA, arguing that the “ineligible volunteer files” show the organization hasn’t done enough to protect children against sexual abuse and misconduct, and hasn’t done enough to warn parents of the risks. Both insurers are arguing in court that they shouldn’t have to pay claims related to abuse that the BSA could have reasonably prevented. The BSA and several councils sued both insurers for $13.5 million in June. In a separate legal battle, insurers are refusing to cover sex-abuse settlements and legal defense fees for the BSA, arguing that the events were not accidents and could have been prevented. Edited August 23, 2021 by CynicalScouter Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CynicalScouter Posted August 23, 2021 Share Posted August 23, 2021 1 minute ago, SiouxRanger said: Why is the Hartford sweet deal not a "preference?" That doctrine is not applicable to Ch. 11 bankruptcy cases? Not sure I follow. The claim was that that Hartford deal was perfectly sound use of business judgement and perfectly valid. The judge did NOT rule the Hartford deal was fine, and in fact may LATER rule it is a problem for other reasons. All that she indicated during the last hearing was that the RSA hearing and the RSA was not the time/place/forum to make that argument. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SiouxRanger Posted August 23, 2021 Share Posted August 23, 2021 55 minutes ago, CynicalScouter said: No, because unlike the Methodists and the LDS, there is NOT enough interest in staffing a full time position for this. There is no money for them to have a full time, paid person that does nothing by Catholic scouting nationally. The committee is NOT an extension of National, and if BSA staffers are opening mail addressed to the committee without permission, that's a felony. That said, there are lots of smaller volunteer organizations who use the address for mailing purposes of some larger entity that they are attached/affiliated with because they don't have the money or dedicated staff. The other reason is that unlike LDS (which has a national hierarchical structure) the Catholic Dioceses operate as individual, autonomous units. All that the National Committee on Catholic Scouting does is set standards for the religious awards, etc. It is up to the dioceses to decide if they will have scouting units attached to the churches and on what terms and that will vary from diocese to diocese. Well, if the Catholics don't have staff assigned to open the mail in Irving, someone is and likely has permission. Parishes answer to Dioceses, Dioceses to Archdioceses, and they answer to ? Papal Nuncio? The vow of obedience obligates the clergy to answer to whom? The Catholic Church has an impressive body of Canon Law, last time I looked online. It is difficult to discuss matters in "executive session" when the subject of the discussion gets your mail-perhaps not all of it. And maybe the National Catholic Committee of Scouting has no responsibility for anything except religious awards. But somebody must have that responsibility. And so far, not a word have I been able to find pertaining to my unit. I believe there was a report that the Archdiocese of New Orleans issued direction on rechartering. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThenNow Posted August 23, 2021 Share Posted August 23, 2021 (edited) 13 minutes ago, SiouxRanger said: Parishes answer to Dioceses, Dioceses to Archdioceses, and they answer to ? Papal Nuncio? "Answer to," but that doesn't seem to in any way "draw up" the liability. I believe it stops and rests with each Diocese. That's why they are the ones being sued and moving into their own 11s. No? Maybe this strand in the thread is about who gets to open the mail. Call me when it's over. Edited August 23, 2021 by ThenNow Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CynicalScouter Posted August 23, 2021 Share Posted August 23, 2021 (edited) 20 minutes ago, SiouxRanger said: Parishes answer to Dioceses, Dioceses to Archdioceses, and they answer to ? Papal Nuncio? Dioceses don’t “answer” to archdioceses for starters. and no one “answers” to the papal Nuncio. He isn’t the boss of all bishops. And the vow of obedience obligates clergy to obey those appointed as superior to them. This gets into a ton of complexity I do not want to get into here (e.g. does a Jesuit priest assigned to a university inside a diocese answer to the bishop or his Jesuit superior-general? Etc.) 20 minutes ago, SiouxRanger said: But somebody must have that responsibility Yes as I explained each bishop (or for an archdiocese an archbishop) gets to decide. Other than a direct appeal to the Holy See, there is no one else “above” a bishop/archbishop. That is again why there will not be ONE answer for all Catholic chartered units in the US. It will be entirety dependent on what that particular bishop wants to do or not do. So the fact that the Bishop of Dallas tossed all the units out does NOT mean anything one way or the other for the Diocese of El Paso. Edited August 23, 2021 by CynicalScouter 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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