Chapter 11 Announced - Part 5 - RSA Ruling

[SiouxRanger]

No one regrets more than me that I have more ill-formed questions, than half-baked answers.

[CynicalScouter]

2 hours ago, SiouxRanger said:

And no one on the Board knew of this precarious financial situation, board meeting after board meeting, quarter after quarter, until I and another non-Board member, figured it out, and there was h***fire to pay.

I think part of the issue is that for many council boards it is simply a buy-a-seat proposition. It is entirely a fundraising endeavor. The board members themselves are often completely unaware that they are suppose to have, you know, actual engagement. Maybe, maybe the Council President will have some inkling, but that's it. For the rest, a council board seat is like an honorary position/thank you for your donations (and keep them coming).

I would say on my board 1/2 of the people present are there for their wallets first and their scouting insights second. The other have scouting insights first, money second.

[ThenNow]

10 hours ago, MYCVAStory said:

those representing the TCC and Zalkin group who have a long history of serving victims in STATE courts as well where they have filed cases. 

I don’t know the details, but am aware of this, generally. If you know some specifics, many have no clue that the TCC works hand and glove with a passel of the best, most experienced and most committed child sexual abuse attorneys on the planet. Well, that’s what been briefly stated in Town Halls. Any info to help understand this would be appreciated. Inquiring minds want to know.

[vol_scouter]

1 hour ago, CynicalScouter said:

I think part of the issue is that for many council boards it is simply a buy-a-seat proposition. It is entirely a fundraising endeavor. The board members themselves are often completely unaware that they are suppose to have, you know, actual engagement. Maybe, maybe the Council President will have some inkling, but that's it. For the rest, a council board seat is like an honorary position/thank you for your donations (and keep them coming).

I would say on my board 1/2 of the people present are there for their wallets first and their scouting insights second. The other have scouting insights first, money second.

@SiouxRanger and @CynicalScouter,

Sorry that your council executive boards (EB) function so poorly.  While my council’s EB is not perfect, it functions much better than yours.  Most EB members are Scouters while some are more on the donor side.  The professional staff provides information about how large large events performed and plans for the next occurrence of the event.  If the event is not specified, a query can be made with an immediate response.

Remember that it is the executive committee (EC) where more detail is provided, mainly through the involvement of the EC members as committee chairs.  The EB has some trust that the EC has done its job correctly.  The EC has members who are active Scouters and business people who help to run a well managed nonprofit.  
 

@SiouxRanger may need a new Scout Executive. 
 

 

[David CO]

5 hours ago, SiouxRanger said:

 

If the Executive Board is not intended to be provided with reliable data on the operational performance of the council and make policy decisions based on that data, then the Executive Board is a sham.  (And that is precisely my view.)

 

Of course the Executive Board is a sham.  That's why my COR never attended council meetings.  He refused to waste his valuable time participating in a sham.  There was plenty of productive work for him to do with the troop.  

I blame board members for much of the problems that caused this bankruptcy.  By accepting these positions, and participating in this sham, they gave parents the false impression that BSA is a safe, well-managed organization with proper volunteer oversight.  Nothing could be further from the truth.

Parents should have been told the truth.  Those prominent volunteers who participated in creating and perpetuating this façade are at least partly responsible for the situation that lead up to the bankruptcy.

 

Edited August 25, 2021 by David CO

[David CO]

1 hour ago, vol_scouter said:

The EC has members who are active Scouters and business people who help to run a well managed nonprofit.

A well managed nonprofit?  After everything that has happened, you can still call BSA a well managed nonprofit?  That is ridiculous!

People need to take their heads out of the sand.  Many thousands of kids were molested.  BSA is in bankruptcy.  BSA is not, and never has been, a well managed nonprofit!

 

Edited August 25, 2021 by David CO

[PeterHopkins]

6 hours ago, SiouxRanger said:

First, I am not talking about audited financial statements. (You have made the legally objectional assumption of a "fact not in evidence.")

Not at all. I understood your use of the term "financial statements" as a technical term of art. As I said, financial statements would not include the level of detail you wanted to see. From your last post, it appears you meant this to be understood in a much broader sense.

6 hours ago, SiouxRanger said:

Are you saying to me that the members of the Executive Board of a Council are NOT ENTITLED to know if major programs of the Council are losing their "donkey," month-to-month, year-to-year?

Not at all. Instead, I said:

8 hours ago, PeterHopkins said:

Management's evaluation of the entity's operations should encompass far more than the audited financial statements. The council's internal accounting staff should have information concerning indiviual programs and should have made it available to members of the executive board, if it was requested.

Serving on a non-for-profit organization's board carries a responsibility that is often underappreciated by board members. I think it is absurd that the professional staff would deny requests from the council executive board to seee detailed internal management reports. It is simply not supposed to work that way.

[Eagle1993]

[PeterHopkins]

@Eagle1993 - So, we're feeding the beast here.

[Eagle1993]

2 minutes ago, PeterHopkins said:

@Eagle1993 - So, we're feeding the beast here.

Appears so. 

[ThenNow]

58 minutes ago, PeterHopkins said:

Serving on a non-for-profit organization's board carries a responsibility that is often underappreciated by board members. I think it is absurd that the professional staff would deny requests from the council executive board to seee detailed internal management reports. It is simply not supposed to work that way.

Having been Executive Director of an organization with a couple $100M annual net revenue, there was a working board and an executive/advisory board. The latter was a list of people willing to be named on the stationary and included on marketing materials. Nothing more. In my involvement with other working and advisory/executive boards, the level of involvement was up to the member. Very very few advisory/executive boards did anything, except for my limited BSA LC experience. Maybe a press statement or appearance at a gala. Reticence or refusal to allow access to decisions and numbers, however, would not have been tolerated, especially by major donors on the executive board. That’s just stupid and self-defeating, in addition to bad business practice.

[ThenNow]

29 minutes ago, Eagle1993 said:

Appears so. 

For you active Scouters, I hope this doesn’t put a damper on the candid discussion here. 

[MYCVAStory]

2 hours ago, ThenNow said:

If you know some specifics, many have no clue that the TCC works hand and glove with a passel of the best, most experienced and most committed child sexual abuse attorneys on the planet. Well, that’s what been briefly stated in Town Halls. Any info to help understand this would be appreciated. Inquiring minds want to know.

C/O an advocate involved here are the "principle" attorneys representing TCC members and advocating for ALL victims, and not just the clients of any coalition.  The bios give an idea of their experience on the victim experience side.   I'm not a lawyer, I'm not shilling for any, and other than my college roommate who became an attorney and owes me beer money none have ever paid or owe me a dime to post this 🙂

https://www.paulmones.com/paul-mones/

https://mersonlaw.com/founder-jordan-merson/

https://www.hurley-law.com/attorneys/christopher-t-hurley/

https://www.crewjanci.com/our-team/ (Crew and Janci)

https://www.hurley-law.com/attorneys/evan-m-smola/

https://www.andersonadvocates.com/overview/attorney-profiles/

https://www.linkedin.com/company/lujanandwolff (Delia Lujan)

[vol_scouter]

2 hours ago, David CO said:

A well managed nonprofit?  After everything that has happened, you can still call BSA a well managed nonprofit?  That is ridiculous!

People need to take their heads out of the sand.  Many thousands of kids were molested.  BSA is in bankruptcy.  BSA is not, and never has been, a well managed nonprofit!

 

@David CO  It is not ridiculous!  Sorry that your council has been mismanaged but mine is well managed.

[Sentinel947]

22 minutes ago, ThenNow said:

For you active Scouters, I hope this doesn’t put a damper on the candid discussion here. 

It does indeed for me. If Kosnoff is reading here, who knows what other parties are watching?  

It's also highly interesting. He's quoting random, anonymous strangers off a web forum. It's possible that any of us do not know what we claim to know, or aren't who we claim to be. Not exactly trustworthy sources.