Chapt 11 Proof of Claim leads to Local Search Warrant, Arrest

[mrjohns2]

4 hours ago, Eagle94-A1 said:

I would hope someone at every council who has access to the POC has gone through to see if anyone accused is still active and/or alive.

I assumed they would all be on the IVF, but that is a big assumption. This process may have been the first time the victim has spoken out. 

[ThenNow]

11 minutes ago, mrjohns2 said:

I assumed they would all be on the IVF, but that is a big assumption. This process may have been the first time the victim has spoken out. 

Very, very few were already reported or listed, for that very reason.

I got a Saturday night hypothetical for youz guys. You’re a member of the LC Cone of Silence Brigade. You’re tasked with going through your share of a couple hundred Proofs of Claim. In your reading, you discover terrible things, credibly alleged, about a guy you go to church with or see at the bar or is a part of your hunting club. He abused more than one boy, you find. The SoL had run on all the claims. What do you do? How do you feel? How do you find yourself around him? Hm?

I saw my abuser in my hometown once when I was a grown a** man. I walked into a coffee shop, got in line, and there he was a few people in front of me. I froze between pissing myself and going to my truck to get the bat I kept behind the seat. I talked myself into just waiting for him to leave and resisted the temptation to do what I wanted to do. 

Edited August 22, 2021 by ThenNow

[johnsch322]

54 minutes ago, ThenNow said:

going to my truck

What kind of truck?

 

[ThenNow]

11 minutes ago, johnsch322 said:

What kind of truck?

You messin’ with me?

Assuming not, ‘85 F-150. Beautiful dark blue and white. It was my dad’s. I bought it from my mom when he died.

Edited August 22, 2021 by ThenNow

[mrjohns2]

1 hour ago, ThenNow said:

I got a Saturday night hypothetical for youz guys. You’re a member of the LC Cone of Silence Brigade. You’re tasked with going through your share of a couple hundred Proofs of Claim. In your reading, you discover terrible things, credibly alleged, about a guy you go to church with or see at the bar or is a part of your hunting club. He abused more than one boy, you find. The SoL had run on all the claims. What do you do? How do you feel? How do you find yourself around him? Hm?

I see the situation. I still think action needs to be taken. SoL doesn't matter for being kicked out of Scouting. Ideally they would hire a person that isn't from the community, but then again, this is the job of the council executive. I read enough of the IVF to see an approximate process. The get creditable accusations, they fill out the forms, the notify the person and national that they are now in the IVF. This needs to be done. 

[ThenNow]

6 minutes ago, mrjohns2 said:

I see the situation. I still think action needs to be taken. SoL doesn't matter for being kicked out of Scouting.

I’m asking you guys personally. He’s not in Scouting anymore. He’s untouchable under the law…

Edited August 22, 2021 by ThenNow

[johnsch322]

22 minutes ago, ThenNow said:

You messin’ with me?

Assuming not, ‘85 F-150. Beautiful dark blue and white. It was my dad’s. I bought it from my mom when he died.

If I came across my abuser (been so long I am sure I couldn’t recognize him if he is alive) I would find a way to run over him in a crosswalk in my 2020 Ford Ranger 4X4. I just wanted to make sure you didn’t drive some piss ant little truck like a Chevy Luv. 

[NealOnWheels]

1 hour ago, ThenNow said:

I got a Saturday night hypothetical for youz guys. You’re a member of the LC Cone of Silence Brigade. You’re tasked with going through your share of a couple hundred Proofs of Claim. In your reading, you discover terrible things, credibly alleged, about a guy you go to church with or see at the bar or is a part of your hunting club. He abused more than one boy, you find. The SoL had run on all the claims. What do you do? How do you feel? How do you find yourself around him? Hm?

As a mandated reporter I would send these Proofs of Claims to law enforcement.  I don't know all the nuances of statue of limitation law.  Let law enforcement sort that out.

I would also make sure the individual is placed in the IVF.

Then my relationship with the individual will be forever changed.  I think, like you, I would want to avoid all interaction with him.  The only abuser I knew was arrested and never left jail before his conviction which made avoidance easy.  I remember feeling very disappointed in him.  I question myself today about whether I should have been aware enough of what was going on.  I am not sure what I would do if I encountered the person.

[mrjohns2]

31 minutes ago, ThenNow said:

I’m asking you guys personally. He’s not in Scouting anymore. He’s untouchable under the law…

I can't relate, directly, to being in the same room as my abuser. I was on a church board where a member was told to stay away from a particular 7 year old. The mom had bad vibes from the older man from when she was in 1st grade herself. He was then found tickling her, in public view. I had to be part of the board that questioned him. He did recall being told to not interact with the girl. The board voted unanimously to band him from being a Sunday school teacher (he was not one), that he should not interact with that family, and to always have a second adult with him. 

The church community blew up with 2/3'rds taking his side and 1/3 taking the side of the board and child protection. The arguments went on for 6 months. We ended up leaving the church as it was no longer a happy place for us. 

Was it hard being in the room with him or his main supporters? Yes. I had to have a "annual pledge drive" in house meeting with his main supporter. It was one of the hardest things I have done. Again, I have lived a very protected and sheltered life. Would I do it all over again? Yes.

Would I ban someone I know to be a good person? It is hard to answer in a hypothetical. I would like to say yes. Then, I would like the acquisition to be very credible. It is all very hard stuff. 

[awanatech]

On 8/20/2021 at 6:58 PM, Eagle1970 said:

Ok.  Mandatory reporting.  I get that.  I should have read that.  My abuser likes guns.  Great.  Thanks BSA.  My proof already made its way to the Catholic Insurance Fund.  Might just as well put it in the paper.  This whole thing has gone from helping victims into an all-out S### show.  I don't need the minimal compensation as much as I need my security and well-being.  Just sorry I ever filed.

I guess this leaves me kind of confused. I thought that those who had been abused were wanting justice for their abusers. Wouldn't this law enforcement action be a good thing in that it would hold the abusers accountable legally for their crimes? Or is that some who filled out the Proof of Claim forms were wanting some (a lot?) of money, but not necessarily for justice to be served on their abusers? 

[johnsch322]

46 minutes ago, awanatech said:

I guess this leaves me kind of confused. I thought that those who had been abused were wanting justice for their abusers. Wouldn't this law enforcement action be a good thing in that it would hold the abusers accountable legally for their crimes? Or is that some who filled out the Proof of Claim forms were wanting some (a lot?) of money, but not necessarily for justice to be served on their abusers? 

For the majority of us justice cannot be served to our abusers.  Personally I want both of them accountable but one I don't even know his name and the other his name was known at the time but nothing happened to him then and now too much time has passed.  Both I would want dead.  As for myself yes I want just compensation and yes that means money...a sh*t load of money if I had my way.  So yes I guess I want both.  You shouldn't be confused I would say that the majority of us feel the same way.

[ThenNow]

9 hours ago, johnsch322 said:

I just wanted to make sure you didn’t drive some piss ant little truck like a Chevy Luv. 

For the record, this is what elicited my laughing man emoji. 

[ThenNow]

9 hours ago, NealOnWheels said:

like you, I would want to avoid all interaction with him. 

My avoidance of him, that time, was in deference to my family and the realization that harming him would most likely land me in prison. Another time, I was in my home town again and met some high school “friends” (only two really qualify) at a dive bar. I moved away when I was 18 so had been gone for 20+ years. I was not drinking at the time. When I walked in and looked over to the bar, there sat two of my ASMs. We recognized each other immediately. I said, “Hey,” politely riding an immediate adrenaline surge, on high alert. The main ASM, who I liked very much but have allowed myself to admit had to have been complicit in nearly everything, looked at me and said, “__________” (SM) will be here in a few minutes.” I blurted out, “Good. Tell him I’m looking for him.” He never showed. I assume they called him. For what’s it’s worth, a was a late bloomer and smaller kid up until junior/senior year of high school. When I was in town for that particular reunion some of the fat and out of shapes jocks joked I should be voted, “Most likely to have taken steroids.” I didn’t look like a pretty young boy any more. 

It’s hard to explain what’s like knowing “that person” is skulking around on the planet, living their life and going on their merry way. I realize, he may have been and may be a tortured individual. I never saw it. Only slightly more than 10 years my senior, I have watched from a distance as he enjoys his retirement, sees the grandkids, fishes, hangs out with the boys, fishes and hunts and (wait for it) organizes his photos from Scouting to selectively post on his Fb page. Yours truly is featured prominently at about age 13. I’m not kidding. His life appears to have been far, far, far more stable and normal than mine.

So you don’t think me some sort of masochist, I only looked at his Fb in preparation for my POC and a few times previous when writing about my life and experience. 

[johnsch322]

2 hours ago, ThenNow said:

For the record, this is what elicited my laughing man emoji. 

Thanks for the emoji and the reply. I wish that my serial down voter had the wisdom to explain his down votes.

[ThenNow]

35 minutes ago, johnsch322 said:

I wish that my serial down voter had the wisdom to explain his down votes.

Badge of honor, my friend. Badge of honor.