Whats next?

[Mrjeff]

There have been a lot of changes over the last several years.  Some of them were popular and some not so much.  Many veteran Scouters have accepted these changes and many did not.  I wonder what's next.  I heard many people say that they do certain things in other countries and for some reason that seems to justify the changes made in the BSA.  For example several visiting Scouts went to the trading post at the World Jamboree and wanted to buy beer.  They were surprised when they discovered that beer was not allowed.   I don't care if a person drinks beer or not but I am waiting for the BSA to make that change.  Since Marijuana is greatly accepted, when will the BSA allow it's use at events.  I have never walked around hearing "I drink beer" or "I smoke Marijuana" but either way it's not any of my business.  As I remember, when the BSA allowed gay leaders and Scouts to participate a statement was made that there would be no attention focused on the sexual preference of an individual.  Again, it is none of my business.  Then why do Scouts and Scouters feel the need to announce that they are gay.  I don't announce the fact that I'm straight, so why is it necessary for me to know that someone is gay.  I recently attended a gathering where the program included three sessions in which the LGBTQ+ community was discussed and even promoted.  I just don't understand why I must stifle my beliefs to appease others with whom I don't agree.  I don't care if a person is gay but they don't have to continually advertise it, try to force me to accept that lifestyle, or think that lifestyle is good.  I know that many many readers agree but just don't have the brass to take a stand.  I know that this post will probably upset many but many others agree, but just won't admit it.   I hope this makes it past the moderators because this is a very real issue within the BSA.  Don't bother with a lot of remarks or negative comments directed to me because I probably won't read them, but I hope this raises some real and honest discussion.

[CynicalScouter]

7 minutes ago, Mrjeff said:

Then why do Scouts and Scouters feel the need to announce that they are gay.  I don't announce the fact that I'm straight, so why is it necessary for me to know that someone is gay. 

What do you mean by "announce" they are gay.

What I HAVE had is a female den leader who said "My wife would love this."

Is that "announcing" they are gay? No more than when I mention "I have to check with my wife about our calendar" last night at roundtable "announced" I was heterosexual.

9 minutes ago, Mrjeff said:

Don't bother with a lot of remarks or negative comments directed to me because I probably won't read them

Then why even post here? This is the mods decision of course, but this is a discussion board. A statement like that is simply unscoutlike and directly contradicts the idea of there being a discussion board.

What you are saying here, in effect, is "read my words, but I won't engage in any other way and I sure as heck won't read yours."

Ok then, bye-bye.

[CynicalScouter]

12 minutes ago, Mrjeff said:

They were surprised when they discovered that beer was not allowed.   I don't care if a person drinks beer or not but I am waiting for the BSA to make that change.  Since Marijuana is greatly accepted, when will the BSA allow it's use at events.

I would be shocked if BSA did for two main reasons:

1. Alcohol and marijuana (where legal) are still 21+ which means it would be limited to scout leaders and
2. I can very easily see BSA for liability reasons indicating they will NOT serve beer or marijuana at Jambo NOR will they allow any leaders to drink or do drugs while they are responsible for scouts.

[Mrjeff]

Sorry guys but you can blast away all you like but as my Scouting career draws to an end so does my participation in this forum.  If you disagree or have other opinions you certenly have a right to them.  But don't try to force them on me because I have a right to have my own opinions.  In my opinion the open acceptance of gays and girls into the Boy Scouts is a mistake that is irreparable.   Good By.

[johnsch322]

12 minutes ago, Mrjeff said:

Sorry guys but you can blast away all you like but as my Scouting career draws to an end so does my participation in this forum.  If you disagree or have other opinions you certenly have a right to them.  But don't try to force them on me because I have a right to have my own opinions.  In my opinion the open acceptance of gays and girls into the Boy Scouts is a mistake that is irreparable.   Good By.

It appears that you are homophobic and you have that right.  I think BSA and these forums might be better off without your participation and some of the old sad opinions.

[Sentinel947]

I agree with @CynicalScouter. @MrjeffWhat's the point of this thread or your post? You seem frustrated, so I hope your post gives you some release and satisfaction. 

Nobody here is trying to force their opinion on you, but if you make public statements there are plenty of people ready and willing to argue. 

Personally I've been on this forum to learn from experienced Scouters on how to execute the program, stay up to date on changes, work through issues and celebrate success. Over time I've learned some stuff that I hope might help others. 

You've made several mentions of ending your involvement in Scouts. Even if you don't like decisions the BSA has made, I hope you and your youth enjoyed Scouting together and you look back on it as rewarding and worthwhile. Hopefully you'll be on to contribute to other organizations you feel more aligned with. 

[CynicalScouter]

23 minutes ago, Mrjeff said:

But don't try to force them on me because I have a right to have my own opinions. 

No one is "forcing" their opinions on you here unless by "force" you mean "disagree with."

I find this curious that you feel it is perfectly acceptable to make a statement but then follow-up with a declaration that, in effect, you want no discussion, much less debate, of the subject(s) and that any attempt to disagree with you is "forcing" an opinion on you.

If you wish to leave, leave. Simple as not posting here. You were the one who opted to post, no one here made you do so. You were also the one who decided to declare he "probably" won't read any responses

49 minutes ago, Mrjeff said:

Don't bother with a lot of remarks or negative comments directed to me because I probably won't read them,

So great. You made your point. You hate gays and girls being in Scouts, BSA and "probably" won't read anything or anyone who disagrees.

Then your done and this thread can be locked.

[ALongWalk]

OP, all you seem to do in your post is focus on the issues/things that you don’t like. Why not focus on the things you like about Scouting? Also, you ask why you should have to accept certain beliefs and lifestyles.  Why should a majority of the world have to accept your worldview? 

[Mrjeff]

To the owner, it appears that individuals who know nothing about me wish to give me advice on Scouting issues.  I have 50 + years in this club and have seen and heard it all.  I am a Caucasian,  homofobic male who doesn't care what others choose to do.  But, I don't appreciate other people trying to force their ideas down my throat and make me think that everything is just fine, and that includes the gay lifestyle.  The BSA is a private organization that requires an application and a membership fee.  For a very long time they held true to the Scout Oath and Law and that has been abandoned.  Perhaps I am the only one left that doesn't think the gay lifestyle is "morally straight " and that girls have a place in the Boy Scouts.  Perhaps I'm the only one who will not allow my boys to go away with a gay scoutmaster, and still encourage my girls to be girls.  Or maybe I'm just the only one who will take a stand and say exactly what I  think.  At any rate, I have turned of my forum notifications, so please remove me/block me/ or otherwise remove me from this service.  PS:  It sure is easy to get total strangers 9!$$&@ off,  ha ha ha😅

[CynicalScouter]

15 minutes ago, Mrjeff said:

But, I don't appreciate other people trying to force their ideas down my throat

Disagreeing with your views does not = "people trying to force their ideas down [your] throat."

15 minutes ago, Mrjeff said:

or otherwise remove me from this service.

You know that you can always just leave, right? Logout and never log back in. No one is making you stay here.

14 minutes ago, Mrjeff said:

it appears that individuals who know nothing about me wish to give me advice on Scouting issues. 

As opposed to what exactly? That everyone is suppose to simply take your direction, your views, say "yes sir" and agree 100%? That's...not how the universe tends to work.

Edited August 7, 2021 by CynicalScouter

[David CO]

3 minutes ago, Mrjeff said:

Perhaps I am the only one left that doesn't think the gay lifestyle is "morally straight " and that girls have a place in the Boy Scouts.  

Not hardly.  I don't think many of the members of this forum, or of scouting in general, have changed their minds on these issues.  If there seems to be less discussion about it, it may just be that BSA no longer considers it to be an issue.  The national council has decided on the matter and there is little point arguing about it.  It's a done deal.  

I do think those who are on the winning side of these issues have been less than magnanimous in their victory.  Having won the policy issue, they could afford to be a little less hostile with those who are still disappointed in their defeat.

[CynicalScouter]

15 minutes ago, David CO said:

I don't think many of the members of this forum, or of scouting in general, have changed their minds on these issues. 

Given that the newer/newest generations are exceptionally tolerant of homosexuality, I would bet that scouting in general has "changed their minds."

Moreover, 1 in 6 Gen Z adults are LGBT. And this number could continue to grow.

And the Gen Z = the newer/newest scouting leaders.

Down vote this reality all you want: but the next generation of scouters and scouts are much, much more tolerant.

Edited August 7, 2021 by CynicalScouter

[yknot]

In high school I had a friend who looked so like a boy she was mercilessly teased and called butch. High school reunion ten years later she looked like a super model. 20 years later happily married with kids. The class heartthrob went into acting, had minor success, and is gay with a husband and a kid. I do not care what people do in their personal lives as long as it does not hurt anyone else. Scouting's problem was not with homosexuals, it was with pedophiles. The homophobic culture of scouting only aided and abetted them in their predation. 

Character is character. It doesn't have a color or a gender or a religion. 

[yknot]

Furthermore, to anyone of the same homophobic opinions, you need to read up on Lord Baden Powell beyond the sanitized biographies written about him. He was without doubt a repressed, crossing dressing homosexual. Still a great man, with great wisdom to impart about kids, but that is undeniably who and what he was. 

[CynicalScouter]

72% of those in the US say homosexuality should be accepted by society. Only 21% say it shouldn't be.

That's up from 51% in 2002 (just after the Dale case was decided by SCOTUS).

And among younger people that acceptance number is even higher.

38 minutes ago, Mrjeff said:

Perhaps I'm the only one who will not allow my boys to go away with a gay scoutmaster,

Why, because all gay people = child molesters? Or are more likely to be child molesters? Is that what you think?

Edited August 7, 2021 by CynicalScouter