Citizenship in Society "Soft Release"; Diversity, Equity, Inclusion Repackaged?

[yknot]

FYI, upstander is a pretty common term the kids have heard for years in school assemblies on bullying, inclusion, etc. Be an upstander not a bystander. I haven't taken the training but based on your excellent recap, a lot of the content you have outlined here is cribbed from standard presentations to school age audiences, including quotes, with some 2020 hotbutton updates. Not sure where this goes from here. Was anything said about Native American and other cultural representations/appropriation in scouting? I've wondered how any merit badge on this subject would square that.  

[RememberSchiff]

9 hours ago, fred8033 said:

Training was generally fine.  

• A few problems ... 
  • #1  "Everyone's opinions are valid".  ... No.  I value the person and make the effort to hear what they say.  "Actively listen" without pre-judging.  I'll bend over backwards to find truth and value in their statements.  But we are still in a pandemic where people are upset because they claim their facts and asssert the other side was not using facts.  ... My point is everyone's opinions are not valid.   Everyone is to be valued and heard, but that does not mean all opinions are valid.
  • #2  Weren't we already doing this stuff?  Did I miss something?  I'm confused.
  • #3  Course is trying to address a hot button, current affairs issue, but the course removed the meat to make it acceptable to everyone.
    • Simple fact is I'm still extremely upset from last summer with people calling police bastards.  ... Just one example ... Bridges have been burnt.  
    • I can't see teaching / discussing DE&I without discussing 2020 and that means discussing what I believe happened.  
    • I can't see being a resource to talk about DE&I because of racial issues.  As a middle aged white male I am a target that people will jump on and quickly label without knowing who I am or actively listening to me.  
    • So, if this is just about how to be a better more authentic leader, fine.  If this is about teaching DE&I, then ... ummm ... we have a problem still. 
  • #4  Upstander seems like a pet-rock term.  Meh.  I thought we already had terms for that but perhaps the terms became too unpopular.  
  • #5  Feels like training just grabbed some good leadership stuff and has called it DE&I.

Below are my notes from the training ...

First sentence on the header for the training.   "Diversity, equity, and inclusion work only if everyone is invited to participate and feels accepted for their uniqueness." ...   Seems like a fairly innocous statement.  So, everyone is invited to participate.  ... Atheists and agnostics?  ... begins to raise hair ... drug users?  Those that drop the F bomb every fourth word?  Those that learn how to socialize from South Park and Celebrity Death Match?   ... Those that burn the flag? ...  SWorse yet, those that pay $5+ for something that pretends to be coffee?  ... I can quickly devolve this point, but "ONLY IF EVERYONE IS INVITED" and "ACCEPTED FOR THEIR UNIQUENESS" is a loaded statement.  ... People do say scouting teaches values.  ... Perhaps, we should just say scouting teaches canoeing and camping be done with it. 

 

• Introduction ... Mosby ... Nice statement.  I can accept that.  Scouting has a problem recruiting from a wide pool of youth.  Problems with groups by income or nationality or ethnic background.
• Introduction ... Chief Diversity Officer ...  The role has always scared me a bit, but fine.  Nice statement.
• Introduction ... Comittee on diversity.  ... Nice introduction.  I'm getting a bit scared about that will be pushed (definition of terms, etc), but okay.  I'll do the training.
• Foundations ... Objectives ... upstander?  ... Meh ...
• Foundations ... Defining identities ... okay
• Foundations ... Defining diversity ... okay ... BUT ... Units are comprised of many identities ... Yeah, I don't see that happening until the community containing the scout unit is diverse.  Units reflect the community.  ... In addition, scouting has a branding problem with different communities.  Until it's successfully marketed, it's hard to recruit evenly.   Until scouting is affordable, it's hard to be diverse.  In may ways, scouting is now a rich suburb family activity.
• Foundations ... Defining diversity ... "everyone feels welcome in your unit" ... SO, units can't select their membership based on the charter org values?  Is the DE&I superceding CO ownership of the unit?  So, CO's can't represent what they value by selecting the leaders that represent the CO values?  I can see bending over to accept people of all race, ethnic, income, disability, etc.  BUT, I'd have a hard time accepting a leader that contradicts the values / wishes of the CO.
• Foundations ... diversity wheel.   ... meh ...
• Foundations ... Defining equity ... examples ... We have that ingrained now.  We bend over backwards to include.  Examples of wheel chairs and money.  Been there / done that.
• Foundations ... Defining inclusion ... "concerted efforts to bring" ... Okay.  I can accept that within boundaries of not offending the CO.  ... So, how much effort?  ... I relate to helping children with special needs.  We bend over backwards to help, but volunteer units can't provide the same level of support that a school with paid professionals can marshal day in and day out.  We have done "concerted efforts" repeatedly, but we have limits of volunteer energy.
• Foundations ... "Authenticity" .... You hit my weak spot.  I love that term as a tool to teach leadership.
• Foundations ... "Authenticity" ... Questions ... RED FLAG !!!! ... The questions raise red flags.  The questions are meaningful and correct, but then need the skilled leadership using authenticity to create an effective program.  ... This is a volunteer program ya know.  
  • Example:  Page asks "are all leaders appropriately involved in decision making?"  I'm not sure what that means.  I've seen it happen in units where so many different voices were speaking that committee meetings took four hours and everyone was mad and it tore the unit appart.  Scouters are passionate and often conflict.  Sometimes the SM or CC needs to help chart a consistent path.  Sometimes that strong lead can help create a good program.  
• Foundations ... Dance party example is useful.
• Scouting values embrace ... Check your understanding ... Pretty basic.  Not really special to DE&I
• Embracing Diversity in Scouting ... Active listening is part of DE&I?  
• Embracing Diversity in Scouting ... "Treating others in the way they would like to be treated" ... Ya know, there was this guy in Hollywood that ran a restaurant in the 1930s who thought he was a Russian prince.  ... Personally, I'd like to have my kids salute me each day and stand up when I enter the room.  ... The quote begins to lose me.  ... but within reason, it's an okay statement. 
• Embracing Diversity in Scouting ... Love the Gandhi quote.  Gandhi has been one of my heros for 40+ years.  BUT, he's not perfect either.  ... time for another discussion.   ... Not sure Gandhi meant the same thing with diversity, but I can accept the use of the quote.
• Understanding equity ... Fine.  not sure what the argument is. 
• Creating a culture of Inclusion ... Fine
• Building the BSA of tomorrow ... What the ####?  ... Well produced video.  Very good message.  But from a different course?  ... A bit obvious message, but good.  The issue I have is we just had all the earlier sections talk about what I'd call is basic good leadership and being a good person and authenticity as leadership.  Now, the video is about blatant color of skin bigotry with explict presentations of effectively white supremist bigotry.  It's a baiting video.  It's like the video is from a different course.  ...  Worse ... though the mesage of the video is fine ... it's like the video is the direct output of the summer of 2020.  The course earlier had examples of people in wheelchairs ... people who could not afford scouting ... language ... beliefs ... culture ... etc.   The video is only about the color of skin.   Earlier in the course, the examples were examples that any long-term experienced scouter has seen.   Now, the video seems to be presenting a case that we all hope to never see.
  • I'm saying ... either all the meat has been removed from earlier in the course or the video seems to be addressing a different course.
  • Ummm ... what about the unconscious bias so prevelent in today's popular bigotry.  That being that middle aged white men are poor examples and it's okay to silence and shame them.  
• Building the BSA of tomorrow ... Upstander ... Feels like a pretend word, but the guts of it I can see directly in the type of actions I'd expect from my child hood heros of John Wayne, Jimmy Steward and Chuck Norris.  
• Building th BSA of tomorrow ... quote Elie Wiesel " silence of the bystander" ... Great quote.  I won't use the term upstander.  The term sucks.  But, it's about being a person of backbone for standing up for what is right and speaking out about what is wrong.  ... Ya know, I really thought that was what we were supposed to be teaching from the beginning.  I'm slightly confused as this training seems to be pointing out basics that perhaps BSA did not include earlier.  ... In a way ... I cringe at this being called DE&I as it's fundamental leadership.  DE&I introduces too much current day political crap and controversy.  
• "being curious and asking authentic" ... Just listened to NPR in last few days where the speaker was saying it's impolite to ask questions about nationality, origin, etc.  Another friend shared a cartoon of a spoons and forks and the message was implying it's wrong to ask basic questions about orientation. ...  ... I'm not sure those educated really agree on what can be discussed and what can't be discussed.

 

Agree.

#1  (from fred8033 list above) denies development of a critical thinking skill often learned in scouting - Does this person have his facts correct? Is this person rational? Should I be fetching a smoke-shifter?

#2 Yes, those that know and deliver the program often wonder this. Why others neither know and fail to deliver the program should be the focus.

#2 and #4 and "upstander",  the Scout Law states a Scout is Brave.  Personally, I have no use for consultants who seek to legitimize the package they are selling by overwriting existing language with new terminology which gives us #5.  IMHO, Brave gets little discussion in the program, that should change.

My $0.02,

 

Edited August 5, 2021 by RememberSchiff
reference clarity

[fred8033]

5 hours ago, RememberSchiff said:

#5.  IMHO, Brave gets little discussion in the program, that should change.

Yep.  Brave is a great term for it.  When I was young, it was having backbone or man-up or have a set of ####s.  We had heros who taught us lessons about having to stand up for what is right and against what is wrong.  Another more acceptable term, moral fiber.   Or you could use the words "defend and protect" or "support and defend".  ... or ... ... ... ... ...   upstander, meh.

[SiouxRanger]

On 7/30/2021 at 6:34 PM, MattR said:

They combined all of the Cit MB's and the DEI MB into one. Apparently this is the first of many changes in the entire MB program.

So, are we likely to see required or elective merit badges fill in for the merged Citizenship merit badges? And if required, what would they likely be? (Surely, 21 will remain the number to earn Eagle?)

[MattR]

21 minutes ago, SiouxRanger said:

So, are we likely to see required or elective merit badges fill in for the merged Citizenship merit badges? And if required, what would they likely be? (Surely, 21 will remain the number to earn Eagle?)

You didn't quote my entire post. In this case you should have.   look closely at the small print way at the bottom. I was joking.

Have a good day!

[SSScout]

On 7/31/2021 at 8:38 AM, RememberSchiff said:

Could more  "... in Society" merit badges be coming, as started years earlier by Mining in Society ? 

Too late for me.  Often thought, as a kid, a tunnel out the basement would've been a fun thing....  Maybe watch "the Great Escape " again....

 

[skeptic]

On 8/5/2021 at 7:55 AM, RememberSchiff said:

 

Agree.

#1  (from fred8033 list above) denies development of a critical thinking skill often learned in scouting - Does this person have his facts correct? Is this person rational? Should I be fetching a smoke-shifter?

#2 Yes, those that know and deliver the program often wonder this. Why others neither know and fail to deliver the program should be the focus.

#2 and #4 and "upstander",  the Scout Law states a Scout is Brave.  Personally, I have no use for consultants who seek to legitimize the package they are selling by overwriting existing language with new terminology which gives us #5.  IMHO, Brave gets little discussion in the program, that should change.

My $0.02,

 

Interesting thoughts.  One thing that struck me, was the suggestion that somehow the CO's opinions or tenets "might somehow be pushed aside".  I could not help but wonder how if the CO of Mr. Dale's unit had been allowed to make the decision, for their unit, and let it go on, if we might be in a far better position today?  After all, it is my understanding that they knew full well about Mr. Dale and had no issue.  Just saying.  Too many cooks seem appropriate here?

[skeptic]

2 minutes ago, skeptic said:

Interesting thoughts.  One thing that struck me, was the suggestion that somehow the CO's opinions or tenets "might somehow be pushed aside".  I could not help but wonder how if the CO of Mr. Dale's unit had been allowed to make the decision, for their unit, and let it go on, if we might be in a far better position today?  After all, it is my understanding that they knew full well about Mr. Dale and had no issue.  Just saying.  Too many cooks seem appropriate here?

"Should I be fetching a smoke-shifter?"  Guess it depends if it is a left or right handed one?  Do we need to delve out another fifty yards of shoreline"  Can we find someone to stretch the bacon (or pork)?  Is there a snipe involved here?

 

[RememberSchiff]

13 minutes ago, skeptic said:

"Should I be fetching a smoke-shifter?"  Guess it depends if it is a left or right handed one?  Do we need to delve out another fifty yards of shoreline"  Can we find someone to stretch the bacon (or pork)?  Is there a snipe involved here?

Yes questions for Tenderfoot, by First Class and perhaps Second Class, our scouts develop fact gathering and independent thinking - make their own smart decisions as they become leaders. Learn from mistakes, learn from others, and maybe occasionally learn from the handbook.

IMHO, this is an example of fun (smoke-shifters, snipes,...) with a purpose (leader development).

My $0.01,

Edited August 6, 2021 by RememberSchiff

[skeptic]

16 minutes ago, RememberSchiff said:

Yes questions for Tenderfoot, by First Class and perhaps Second Class, our scouts develop fact gathering and independent thinking - make their own smart decisions as they become leaders. Learn from mistakes, learn from others, and maybe occasionally learn from the handbook.

IMHO, this is an example of fun (smoke-shifters, snipes,...) with a purpose (leader development).

My $0.01,

Yes, a newby, not even yet tenderfoot, scout at my first COR held at the sprawling Santa Anita Park in Arcadia in spring of 1955, I spent a lot of time looking for both the smoke shifter and the bacaon stretcher.  Looking back, I just chuckle, though am not sure I was chuckling much then, but I did only encounter "helpful" scouters and scouts along the two hour or so search.  

The fun memory now is that a nice ASM kindly took be over by his fire and told me to take of my vintage service cap and hold it in my left hand.  Then he showed me how to wave it at the smoke to "shift" it; then finally told me to put it in my right hand, and asked me what I now had?  He sent me along with no help on the bacan stretcher.  As the time and memory goes, I soon encountered another r friendly scouter that said he would show me their stretcher, but that they had only the one, and it was in use; and it was.  Some type of hook and spring getup they had designed.  Think I should try to do that sometime, but have not ever gotten to it.  🙃

[SSScout]

9 hours ago, skeptic said:

As the time and memory goes, I soon encountered another r friendly scouter that said he would show me their stretcher, but that they had only the one, and it was in use; and it was.  Some type of hook and spring getup they had designed.  Think I should try to do that sometime, but have not ever gotten to it.  🙃

50 feet of shore line....

"Here's the line you asked for"

"??  And this is 'SHORE' Line??"

"Well , the man I got it from said "SHORE IS..."  "

[SiouxRanger]

15 hours ago, MattR said:

You didn't quote my entire post. In this case you should have.   look closely at the small print way at the bottom. I was joking.

Have a good day!

Hey, I am OLD. I can hardly see.  My hearing is worse.  On good days, I can hear some, on most can't see much. Maybe due to too much meds, or too little-can't tell if my nurse is stealing mine or feeding me hers.

Well, just won Bronze at the Tokyo Olympic Trivia Challenge, so, what was it, your concern...you a Scout, perchance? I was a scout once...can you tie a tautline?  I can untie a Gordian knot.  Well, I could  back during the Bronze Age. Didn't need a sword.  Used a laser-wasn't credited for my scientific innovation. 

Have a good Epoch.

 

(I don't like to look stupid. Smile)

[fred8033]

On 8/6/2021 at 10:46 AM, RememberSchiff said:

... fun (smoke-shifters, snipes,...) with a purpose (leader development). ... 

One person's fun is another's misery.  ... my apologies if I'm being blunt ...   We don't need to be jerks to develop leadership.

[RememberSchiff]

5 hours ago, fred8033 said:

One person's fun is another's misery.  ... my apologies if I'm being blunt ...   We don't need to be jerks to develop leadership.

Hmmm,  that could explain the groaning I hear when I tell a joke.  Personally, I cannot recall misery when I searched for smoke shifters,  henways, or hunted snipes - harmless jokes. Good thing to be able to laugh oneself. Better thing to teach how not to take a joke too far.

I wonder what kind of leaders we develop from coddling our youth?

So a scout walks into a magic forest and tries to chop down a talking tree. "You can't cut me down," the tree complains. "I'm a talking tree!" The scout responds, "You may be a talking tree, but you will dialogue."

My $0.02,

[yknot]

20 minutes ago, RememberSchiff said:

Hmmm,  that could explain the groaning I hear when I tell a joke.  Personally, I cannot recall misery when I searched for smoke shifters,  henways, or hunted snipes - harmless jokes. Good thing to be able to laugh oneself. Better thing to teach how not to take a joke too far.

I wonder what kind of leaders we develop from coddling our youth?

So a scout walks into a magic forest and tries to chop down a talking tree. "You can't cut me down," the tree complains. "I'm a talking tree!" The scout responds, "You may be a talking tree, but you will dialogue."

My $0.02,

Kids are a little different today. Maybe that's what Fred is referring to. It's not coddling. It's recognizing that the 10 and 11 year of today is different than the 10 year old of 20 years ago. Social media, 24 hour cable, peers, whatever, they don't have the same tolerance for games that they think make them look silly. It's why I feel like a lot of the program that seems great and nostalgic to many adults is actually out of sync for a lot of kids. When I did my first cub scout summer camp, the kids loved the shaving cream song. By the time of my last camp,  they mostly thought it was really weird and uncool. That pre teen age to early teen group I think is really struggling. The world has changed so fast for them. They used to be pretty much considered kids. Now, despite the fact that they actually are taught far less coping skills, they are dealing with more and more adult situations. Some of them want to hide under the covers but others want to be treated like adults.  Just my opinions, obviously.