mrjohns2 Posted July 10, 2021 Share Posted July 10, 2021 10 hours ago, fred8033 said: When they brag, it's not about number of Eagle scouts or how they ran their troops. From my 2 years of Scoutmaster, some of the best things was a new Scout who I helped get over her fear of lighting a match to fuse a rope or the Scout who was very very afraid of shooting a 22. She wanted to, but didn't think she could. It really was the little things. 1 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
InquisitiveScouter Posted July 10, 2021 Share Posted July 10, 2021 53 minutes ago, mrjohns2 said: From my 2 years of Scoutmaster, some of the best things was a new Scout who I helped get over her fear of lighting a match to fuse a rope or the Scout who was very very afraid of shooting a 22. She wanted to, but didn't think she could. It really was the little things. -The smile and look of absolute, pure joy from the Scout (with a single mom) with cerebral palsy who caught his first fish! - The grin from the small-statured Scout who learned to handle a canoe solo and completed Canoeing Merit Badge... - Running into an Eagle Scout at Philmont, now a Scoutmaster, who I hadn't seen in 20 years, and he tells his Scouts there, "This is Mr. X!", and the look of wonder from them that I really do exist...I can only imagine the stories he told...like how he felt when he finished his first 50-miler in our old Troop, or really learning to navigate and orienteer in deep woods... - Going through the Pledge of Allegiance phrase by phrase with a Scout (5th grader) who was having difficulty understanding it (he could recite it fine...) and seeing the light bulb come on when he learned what words like pledge, allegiance, republic, indivisible, and justice mean... - The puffed-out chests of the patrol who was proud of camping out on their own (no adults) (when that sort of thing was allowed...) and on, and on, and on 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SSScout Posted July 10, 2021 Share Posted July 10, 2021 Some sad things: * The adult who tells you "I wish I had finished Eagle" "* The kid who tells you "I wish my (old man/ mom/ granddad) would quit bugging me about ""Eagle"". *** The Scout that tells you about how his Troop goes camping once a month, and his (old man/mom/granddad) never goes or takes them. **** The Scout who hears about the previous Scout and says "Our Troop goes to summer camp. That's it." ***** The adult "leader" who insists that every Scout event (defined as any group of Scouts doing Anything together) MUST have two adult registered leaders.... 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
InquisitiveScouter Posted July 10, 2021 Share Posted July 10, 2021 6 minutes ago, SSScout said: ** The adult "leader" who insists that every Scout event (defined as any group of Scouts doing Anything together) MUST have two adult registered leaders.... Ha! Just went mountain biking this morning, and cut loose buddy pairs on over 10 miles of loop trails. "You have a map, water, and a first aid kit?" "Yes!" "OK, have fun..we'll be here at the picnic table if you need us ;)" 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eagledad Posted July 10, 2021 Share Posted July 10, 2021 1 hour ago, InquisitiveScouter said: Ha! Just went mountain biking this morning, and cut loose buddy pairs on over 10 miles of loop trails. "You have a map, water, and a first aid kit?" "Yes!" "OK, have fun..we'll be here at the picnic table if you need us ;)" This reminds me of a campout the PLC planned where the patrols would went on a course with a 3 mile hike, 5 mile bike ride and canoeing navigation course. The patrols had 15 stops where the had to do a skills competition. Very complexe and we thought it would take the whole Saturday. All the patrols carried lunch with them, but in the end, all 6 patrols completed the course by noon and eat lunch in the camp site. But, the story in the story is I got a call from a pack leader a week before asking if their 3 dens of 23 Webelos could camp with us to check out the troop. I wasn’t sure how we could add 23 scouts and their families to the weekend, so I gave the pack leader our SPL phone number. He said yes, assigned some some scouts to organize each patrol to share in helping take care of the Webelos and their parents. The webelos and parents participated in the triathlon activities and had a blast. But the real fun came after lunch. Since the triathlon went much faster than expected, the rest of the day was free time. And just about everyone rode bikes all over the camp for several hours. The web parents were very impressed by the scouts planning and taking full responsibility and care for them. They were also surprised how little they saw any troop adults. The funny part of the story is that everyone was sore and tired the next day. Our troop still had several hours of planned activities they typically plan for Sundays. But the Webelos parents were so tired and sore that they just loaded up their sons and left before breakfast. We worried that we scared them away with too much outdoor stuff. But 2 months later, every scout joined our troop. That was a very memorable campout for many reasons. Barry 1 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AltadenaCraig Posted July 12, 2021 Share Posted July 12, 2021 On 7/6/2021 at 7:13 AM, fred8033 said: Well said. I saw when "Leadership Development" was added as an aim and wondered. Then, I forgot but I'm still uncomfortable with it there. IMHO, it was added for marketing purposes .... I agree that was the most likely motivation. In our hyper-competitive world, what parent doesn't want their kid to acquire skills to "be the boss"? I find it easier to swallow "Leadership Development" when it's defined non-traditionally. "Servant Leadership" comes to mind. Same with disaggregating leadership into its constituent parts: first learn to lead oneself, then how to lead oneself within a team, then within the leadership of that team, before finally learning the responsibilities of being "the leader". Of course, this is just me & my $.02. BSA has got much bigger fish to fry and they're throwing everything at the wall in hopes something sticks. Meantime I'm just trying to keep focused on the Scout Oath & Law in hopes once we come out of all of this the program as I once understood it is still recognizable. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
qwazse Posted July 12, 2021 Share Posted July 12, 2021 So, time to think out of the box … Will we increase membership by removing Leadership Development from the methods of scouting? Why would that make any sense at all? I can think of two reasons. LD not distinctive. Sports claims to be leadership development. Academics claims to be leadership development. Music/band claims to be leadership development. Same for lots of other organizations and many religions. Kids hear it, and it is just another phrase of doublespeak to them. Not everyone is looking for it. I’ve only met a handful of youth who were all about LD, and they were venturers. Many parents just want their kids to grow up strong and good. They don’t see themselves as leaders nor their kids as leaders. When many parents think of “leaders”, they think of a politician who stole the election from their candidate, and they absolutely don’t what that for their kid. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eagledad Posted July 12, 2021 Share Posted July 12, 2021 Taking Leadership Development out of Scouting would be like taking the creamy white filling out of the Oreo cookie. Barry 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fred8033 Posted July 12, 2021 Share Posted July 12, 2021 (edited) 1 hour ago, Eagledad said: Taking Leadership Development out of Scouting would be like taking the creamy white filling out of the Oreo cookie. Barry Leadership development will naturally happen. What needs to be taken out is the "METHOD". Leadership development. We can use methods such as ideals, patrol, advancement, uniforming, etc. Adult volunteer leaders can do something there while still focusing on the heart of scouting. GETTING THE SCOUTS OUTSIDE BEING ACTIVE. Run a program that gives the scout's adventures and they will will naturally learn leadership. ... If anything, add a "method" called "adventure". The issue is having adult volunteer leaders explicitly try to teach leadership. It damages the program. I've been in decades of MBA courses and high performance team training and similar sessions. From what I've seen ... Leadership is not something that can easily be taught. In fact, I'd question whether it can be taught. What you can do is create situations where leadership is necessary and individuals will naturally learn. I even fear saying "create situations" because then you have someone who runs patrol lines four/five times over the same area and drop a small amount of trash after the 2nd pass "to teach a lesson". "Creating situations" is about helping the scouts go bike, hike, cook, etc. Artificially injecting special obstacles to teach leadership is a bad idea. Edited July 12, 2021 by fred8033 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
qwazse Posted July 12, 2021 Share Posted July 12, 2021 47 minutes ago, Eagledad said: Taking Leadership Development out of Scouting would be like taking the creamy white filling out of the Oreo cookie. Barry Or, is it like saying, “We’ll provide chocolate wafers, and and the scouts, the filling!” 1 minute ago, fred8033 said: You can't take the leadership development out. What you can take out the emphasis and the instructions to unit adult leaders that they should be teaching leadership. Leadership development needs to be happening naturally as part of running an active program that gets the scouts out doing thing and having adventures. We all know that we’re not taking leadership out. We’re just removing it as a method … possibly replacing it and personal growth with “service” and “responsibility.” I saw yet another post on the scouting forums from a leader who was bothered about an SPL and PL who already earned Eagle wanting to hold their positions while he/she wanted to let younger scouts to have a crack at those while Star or Life scouts. Our adults aren’t getting the message. Not all of them. Maybe not even most of them. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
InquisitiveScouter Posted July 12, 2021 Share Posted July 12, 2021 1 minute ago, qwazse said: I saw yet another post on the scouting forums from a leader who was bothered about an SPL and PL who already earned Eagle wanting to hold their positions while he/she wanted to let younger scouts to have a crack at those while Star or Life scouts. Our adults aren’t getting the message. Not all of them. Maybe not even most of them. Yikes... Nothing wrong with have more than one Quartermaster, Scribe, Outdoor Ethics Guide, etc... Heck, we have an Eagle Board of Review tonight for a Scout who has only held a Den Chief position for his entire time. At one time, he actually thought he was required to hold some other positions. When we told him he could do what he loved and still develop as a leader, he was very stoked. We told him his ultimate aim was to instill in all of his Cubs/Webelos a desire to continue on to Scouts, whether they joined our Troop or not. Then we helped him set SMART goals every six months to improve his performance and abilities as a Den Chief. He has grown tremendously in that role, and I look forward to congratulating him tonight after his EBoR! 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DuctTape Posted July 12, 2021 Share Posted July 12, 2021 As I mentioned previously the Scout Slogan, "Do a Good Turn Daily" needs to be re-emphasized. It is the embodiment of the Motto, the Oath and Law. If I could define one thing which defines Scouting as unique to any other team, club, or organization with similar aims, methods, and principles it is this... Do a Good Turn Daily. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
InquisitiveScouter Posted July 12, 2021 Share Posted July 12, 2021 7 minutes ago, DuctTape said: As I mentioned previously the Scout Slogan, "Do a Good Turn Daily" needs to be re-emphasized. It is the embodiment of the Motto, the Oath and Law. If I could define one thing which defines Scouting as unique to any other team, club, or organization with similar aims, methods, and principles it is this... Do a Good Turn Daily. Even more evidence requiring...DuctTape for National Commissioner!!! #DuctTapeIsTheMan! #DuctTape4NationalCommissioner Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eagledad Posted July 12, 2021 Share Posted July 12, 2021 59 minutes ago, fred8033 said: Leadership development will naturally happen. What needs to be taken out is the "METHOD". Leadership development. Well, changing Methods is another difficult discussion. Take out Leadership Development, I am all for taking out Adult Association since that seems to be the real problem here. The problem here is that the public does believe leadership is part of the program. I know of several single parent moms that put their son in Scouting to get that development. If you take leadership out of the core of scouting, who is to hold it accountable. Maybe the problem is that adults need to learn not to take any responsibility for the methods. Methods should be a checklist for PLC to insure they are following the BSA program. Barry Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
InquisitiveScouter Posted July 12, 2021 Share Posted July 12, 2021 3 minutes ago, Eagledad said: If you take leadership out of the core of scouting, who is to hold it accountable. Who is held accountable for any of the other items?? One of the most often repeated ideas to parents is, "Stand back, shut up, and watch..." Of course, in much nicer terms than that Leaders don't develop until you put them in the hot seat. Scouts are amazed, at first, when you "Train 'em, trust 'em, and let 'em lead!" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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