I am not new to Scouting but......

[FireStone]

A phone is a tool, like any other, and likewise should be taught to be used appropriately. It could have a lot of uses in a scouting setting, but unfortunately many units ban them. And in some cases, as evidenced by this thread, they even cite non-existent policies to enforce a ban.

I think we're doing a disservice to scouts to just say "no phones" instead of recognizing that technology is here to stay and guiding them on how and when to use it in a scouting setting appropriately.

 

[le Voyageur]

As a high adventure director I’ve no problems with cell phones. In our environment where there is no cell service the only function left is that of a camera. However, we warn them that we don’t replace cell phones should they flip a boat. It’s up to them to keep their phones dry...

[ShutterbugMom]

Thanks for all the replies. I did talk to our Scoutmaster last night and he is opposed to them also.  The female leader that took the phones also sends out the emails and I see she has now added a #6 rule to the list of no phones allowed whatsoever at meetings or camp outs.  It was not there before.  There has also been a rule for years of no flip flops or sandals.  I assume this to include slides and crocs.  A small group met last night to finish geocaching and 3/8 of them had on unapproved footwear....yet nothing was said.  So I feel as thought all rules need to be enforced or none.  I am firmly in disagreement with not taking their phones but I guess I am powerless to change anything.

[malraux]

24 minutes ago, ShutterbugMom said:

I am firmly in disagreement with not taking their phones but I guess I am powerless to change anything.

This seems like an issue the troop committee could address.

[ShutterbugMom]

39 minutes ago, malraux said:

This seems like an issue the troop committee could address.

The first person I called was someone on the committee.  She felt it should be left up to the troop.

[NDW5332]

So how would they handle First Class Requirement 4B if a separate GPS device was not available?  "Demonstrate how to use a handheld GPS unit, GPS app on a smartphone, or other electronic navigation system. Use GPS to find your current location, a destination of your choice, and the route you will take to get there. Follow that route to arrive at your destination."

[qwazse]

31 minutes ago, NDW5332 said:

So how would they handle First Class Requirement 4B if a separate GPS device was not available?  "Demonstrate how to use a handheld GPS unit, GPS app on a smartphone, or other electronic navigation system. Use GPS to find your current location, a destination of your choice, and the route you will take to get there. Follow that route to arrive at your destination."

@NDW5332 clearly, the scouts would go home, pull out their smart phones, and one would video the other using his/her phone to navigate. They would then post videos of them doing this task to their patrol leader, who would sign off in the scouts' handbook at the next meeting. Of course they would cc the SM, ASM and concerned parents to maximize YP.

@ShutterbugMom, the SM is the one who sets the boundaries. The committee needs to quickly reply firmly that they will stand behind the SM's decisions as to what tools scouts may keep on their persons at meetings or camp. They need to let this parent know that if she deems it important for her son to be under leadership that makes rules to her own liking,  she is more than welcome to start her own troop.

Frankly, if I were SM or ASM I would send notice to all parents and scouts regarding anyone who adds blanket rules. I would tell the troop that they were misrepresenting the troop committee and myself. When we share a policy change, we give the reason, and set a time for when the committee will evaluate the usefulness of the rule.

[David CO]

There is an exception to every rule.  Did you know that some kids with diabetes monitor their insulin with their cell phones?  I had a student 3 years ago who had such a device.  If there was a problem, and he didn't respond to his phone warning quickly enough, the phone would text his parents and his doctor's office.  It was a precaution in case he passed out.

He was allowed to have his phone in school.  

[HelpfulTracks]

On 6/18/2021 at 10:08 AM, ShutterbugMom said:

I thought someone here with more knowledge than me might know.  Does it state in the Scout Handbook or the Troop Leaders handbooks that scouts may not have cell phones?  I cannot find it, but we were told by a certain leader that this is the case. 

Let me be clear that I have no problem with cell phones not being allowed if it is announced ahead of time.  I do have a problem with a leader that takes my son's phone when he didn't have it out and she made him (and the rest) dig it out of their bags.  These are all high school age boys at a high adventure camp and they had them for pictures as we were told there was no cell phone reception.  And now there are few pictures and the parents were in the dark about what was going on for nearly a week.  I would just like to know where this is the handbook for my own sanity.  Thanks!

No national rules, though I have heard some councils have rules, though I am not sure its anything more than an urban legend. Units often have rules about cell phones. I am good with that if they are clear and uniformly enforced. Meaning adults lead by example and follow the same rule. But, I prefer rules about usage rather than a strict prohibition. Scouts use cells for photos, and they have been handy in emergencies. 

As for high adventure bases, cell phones are practically useless for communication or GPS tracking as they still need a signal and those are extremely rare on the trails of Philmont, Northern Tier and Sea Base. As for photos, a scout is much better off with a camera because phones are too easily damaged and the cost (read weight and space) for a phone and batteries is far grater than for a GoPro or small digital camera. 

[SSScout]

Cell phones... GPS units....  Oh, I have stories....

Pictures, emergency communication (if you have "signal". Ever watch RV with Robin Williams?) 

Map and compass is still the best idea.  Wife is headed out to a memorial service for a friend, several hours drive . I kiss her goodbye and remind her "you've got maps of those states behind your seat" she says "no problem, got my phone."   Still, just in case.....

Ever try to GPS a place and you discover you are too close to a mega giga volt power line?  Oh, I forgot to recharge....   Some kids do not even KNOW how to turn off the phone to save battery, they never had to before !

I basically do not like ONLY having a 3" view of the earth's surface.  Planning our family vacation, laying out the maps on the floor, seeing that home is HERE,  Niagara falls is HERE, these are the roads we will drive, oh , look a museum ! A Park!  That name sounds interesting !   I reject "suggestions" from an algorithm.  I accept them from a "person". 

[bradintheusa]

We generally ban them but kids can get exceptions. We don't want kids using them but a hidden one may be acceptable. 

[MattR]

Welcome to the forum, @bradintheusa.

 

[mashmaster]

On 6/20/2021 at 5:28 PM, ShutterbugMom said:

Thank you for all the replies.  I am glad to hear it isn't in the scout handbook and I am thankful most of the units let them use them responsibly.  I feel like that is the best course of action.  They are usually banned in our unit but we were told that they could take them for SeaBase.  I am very disappointed this leader took it upon herself to take them from the boys and none of the other three leaders stood up to her and told her it had already been discussed that they could have them.  So, most of the boys had NO cameras.  My son had a waterproof camera and did take pictures, but there is only one underwater selfie of him and one the captain took of him from the side.  I am so disappointed to not have more pictures to make him a photo book.  But this is an important point for me to bring up at the planning meeting, and I will also suggest they start trusting the kids with the phones according to the scout law.

I will note that while I am a Skipper for a Sea Scout Ship which are the same older age that you are referring to for your son.   We don't ban phones from them but it has happened more than once that phone end up at the bottom of a river, lake, or sea.

It is a really hard call for the scout to make to mom and dad "Mom........  ummm my phone is at the bottom of the Buffalo river...."  and as leaders we get grief from mom and dad about them losing their phone.

[curious_scouter]

Our SM put this to the PLC, which I thought was a great approach.  They did some research and looked into policies from a variety of troops.  They ended up taking the approach that electronics are part of our life now, but like Knives they are tools within Scouting and there's a time and place for them and a proper way to use them.  So the set up SOPs for use of electronics and required a class to gain a "cyber totin chit" just like a knife.  When Scouts aren't using their tools in line with the PLC's established SOP they are warned.  If it becomes habitual or there's a severe infraction, they lose the right until they take the class again and re-commit to the SOPs.  I liked this approach a lot.  IN PRACTICE - they have not followed through real well But I still like it.  Sets clear ground rules for use and consequences for misuse.  "When I was a kid" electronics on campouts were strictly forbidden.  I think that's impractical today BUT scouts should be encouraged to put them away, enjoy the activity and outings, etc.  Phones in particular are also cameras, GPS units, compasses, note taking devices, research tools, etc.  There is value to their use even on an outing, but it's all about time and place. 

[yknot]

2 hours ago, curious_scouter said:

Our SM put this to the PLC, which I thought was a great approach.  They did some research and looked into policies from a variety of troops.  They ended up taking the approach that electronics are part of our life now, but like Knives they are tools within Scouting and there's a time and place for them and a proper way to use them.  So the set up SOPs for use of electronics and required a class to gain a "cyber totin chit" just like a knife.  When Scouts aren't using their tools in line with the PLC's established SOP they are warned.  If it becomes habitual or there's a severe infraction, they lose the right until they take the class again and re-commit to the SOPs.  I liked this approach a lot.  IN PRACTICE - they have not followed through real well But I still like it.  Sets clear ground rules for use and consequences for misuse.  "When I was a kid" electronics on campouts were strictly forbidden.  I think that's impractical today BUT scouts should be encouraged to put them away, enjoy the activity and outings, etc.  Phones in particular are also cameras, GPS units, compasses, note taking devices, research tools, etc.  There is value to their use even on an outing, but it's all about time and place. 

This is the common sense approach. They are the new Swiss army knife, and while parents want their kids to unplug they also want them to have them for emergencies. In the current Youth Protection environment, particularly in scouts, cell phones are basically part of the safety net. Most schools have policies like this, the kids are used to those kinds of policies, and they (mostly) work.