Chapter 11 Announced - Part 4 Revised Plan

[johnsch322]

1 hour ago, ThenNow said:

Ah. Gotcha. The other guys would be best able to update you on that.

I can also tell you, as you may have read in my posts, the SE managing this matter knew about the booze and pornography in our Troop. He participated, in fact. How can that be seen as anything other than willing complicity, failure of the duty to warn and effectively accessory to the crime of abuse? He was the dang SE for cripe’s sake. He knew we were being provided those things. In light of the criminality alone, exacerbated by his knowledge that these are elements OF abuse and precursors to illegal sexual contact, he did nothing. Well, other than *Wink wink. Nod nod* I hate that those two boys went through what they did, but finding that file changed my perspective entirely.

It is amazing what transpired in the BSA.  

[johnsch322]

What keeps coming back to haunt me is that very little if anything was ever done for the victims. There was a crappy system for trying to keep abusers from reentering (not always though) they had insurance in case they were sued but so far I can see nothing for the victims.  I have heard about families leaving town.  Scouters continuing on but for the most part it seems like the victims were put to the curb as if they were morning trash. Has anyone heard, seen or read where a victim was given any voluntary help with his trauma?

[qwazse]

13 minutes ago, johnsch322 said:

What keeps coming back to haunt me is that very little if anything was ever done for the victims. There was a crappy system for trying to keep abusers from reentering (not always though) they had insurance in case they were sued but so far I can see nothing for the victims.  I have heard about families leaving town.  Scouters continuing on but for the most part it seems like the victims were put to the curb as if they were morning trash. Has anyone heard, seen or read where a victim was given any voluntary help with his trauma?

IF you dig through some of the older topics, there are posts of erstwhile scouters summarily removed from the program asking about how to lodge appeals for reinstatement. (There was no such process.) We obviously would have no idea if posters of such topics were perpetrators of abuse, but those strangers on the internet were, by their own admission, thwarted. At least, other forum members were of no help to them, at the time.

We haven't had a lot of victims posting about their experiences. Those who have were scouters themselves trying to make the world a better place. I only recall a couple of them, and I don't remember them telling any details about if and how they sought and got help. As a parent and a Crew Advisor, however, their testimony was very helpful and I think made a more attentive leader of me.

I have heard of and known scouts who were victims of trauma offered help from our council. However, the trauma was not from CSA. As a policy, counseling from independent centers is made available, but my understanding is the wait times are much reduced by scheduling via one's health plan.

[johnsch322]

5 minutes ago, qwazse said:

I have heard of and known scouts who were victims of trauma offered help from our council. However, the trauma was not from CSA. As a policy, counseling from independent centers is made available, but my understanding is the wait times are much reduced by scheduling via one's health plan.

Thank you for your answer but my question is about the past.  Did BSA offer help the victims as BSA or local council/troops became aware of the incidents?

If you read the LA Times article they said that at the time of publication there were at least 50 incidences of leaders coming back after expulsion.

Edited August 5, 2021 by johnsch322

[qwazse]

15 minutes ago, johnsch322 said:

Thank you for your answer but my question is about the past.  Did BSA offer help the victims as BSA or local council/troops became aware of the incidents?

If you read the LA Times article they said that at the time of publication there were at least 50 incidences of leaders coming back after expulsion.

"Past" depends on your time frame. But over the past few decades, in some locations, BSA has networked with counseling services to make them available for any victims of trauma as a matter of course. I have seen it happen for non-CSA trauma, and received mixed opinions from the parents who tried to take BSA up on the offer.

Only 50? That's less than 1% of the names in the IVFs. They must have found more who found a revolving door. If not, that would imply that the IVFs were >99% effective. On the other hand, it's hard to say how many of the 7.8K IV's would actually have been pedophiles. I think one of the sociology studies was going to look at how many "2nd attempts" were identified in the files. But I haven't seen any publications about it. (Press releases, but I give them little credence.)

[ThenNow]

1 hour ago, johnsch322 said:

Has anyone heard, seen or read where a victim was given any voluntary help with his trauma?

On a related note, I've asked this before and didn't get any replies. I completely understand if no one here knows the details on this one. If I missed the answer(s), please forgive me and I'd love to be directed to anything posted.

I am keen to understand when the counseling reimbursement program started, under what/whose directive, if it was proactively offered or had to be discovered and sought by victims. To drone on, I first gave BSA notice of my abuse more than a decade ago and didn't get a reply, much less an offer of counseling reimbursement. (I do apologize for asking again, but it's all John's fault.)

[vol_scouter]

The next four paragraphs are copied from Wikipedia today:

"Pedophilia is a psychiatric disorder in which an adult or older adolescent experiences a primary or exclusive sexual attraction to prepubescent children. Although girls typically begin the process of puberty at age 10 or 11, and boys at age 11 or 12, criteria for pedophilia extend the cut-off point for prepubescence to age 13."

"Hebephilia is the strong, persistent sexual interest by adults in pubescent children who are in early adolescence, typically ages 11–14 and showing Tanner stages 2 to 3 of physical development. It differs from pedophilia, and from ephebophilia."

"Ephebophilia is the primary sexual interest in mid-to-late adolescents, generally ages 15 to 19. The term was originally used in the late 19th to mid-20th century. It is one of a number of sexual preferences across age groups subsumed under the technical term chronophilia."

"The term chronophilia was used by John Money to describe a form of paraphilia in which an individual experiences sexual attraction limited to individuals of particular age ranges. The term has not been widely adopted by sexologists, who instead use terms that refer to the specific age range in question. An arguable historical precursor was Richard von Krafft-Ebing's concept of "age fetishism"."

Pedophilia has essentially a 100% recidivism rate.  All disorders are serious psychological disorders but I would encourage not lumping all abusers as pedophiles.  That should be reserved for people who abuse children before they possess secondary sex characteristics.  They are particularly disturbed and it can be argued that they should not ever be released due to the very high recidivism rate.

[ThenNow]

On 8/4/2021 at 6:52 AM, CynicalScouter said:

The Settlement Trustee shall be Eric D. Green and will be appointed by the Bankruptcy Court. I assume it is this Eric D. Green. http://www.acctm.org/egreen/

Q: Are there examples of the victim claimants' submission forms/claim summaries used by other Great and Powerful wo/men of letters in mass tort bankruptcies?  

Edited August 5, 2021 by ThenNow

[vol_scouter]

Just saw this that could impact Youth Protection in the future for children everywhere: Apple plans to scan U.S. iPhones for child abuse imagery - FT (msn.com)

[ThenNow]

4 minutes ago, vol_scouter said:

Just saw this that could impact Youth Protection in the future for children everywhere: Apple plans to scan U.S. iPhones for child abuse imagery - FT (msn.com)

"YAY!" as to trying to address child victimization, BUT huge "ACK!!" as to privacy!! Wow.

Edited August 5, 2021 by ThenNow

[vol_scouter]

6 minutes ago, ThenNow said:

"YAY!" as to trying to address child victimization, BUT huge "ACK!!" as to privacy!! Wow.

Yes.  As far as privacy, I am terribly concerned.  Also, would expect that chronophiles will soon find this out and get Android phones where they can more likely remove any such programs.

[ThenNow]

19 minutes ago, vol_scouter said:

Yes.  As far as privacy, I am terribly concerned.  Also, would expect that chronophiles will soon find this out and get Android phones where they can more likely remove any such programs.

As a matter of principle and constitutional rights, I would seriously consider switching. I love the motive, as stated, but I don't trust said motive any farther than I can toss my truck. 

[johnsch322]

1 hour ago, qwazse said:

"Past" depends on your time frame.

My time frame would be 30 to 60 years ago and yes I am asking about CSA trauma.

[johnsch322]

1 hour ago, ThenNow said:

On a related note, I've asked this before and didn't get any replies. I completely understand if no one here knows the details on this one. If I missed the answer(s), please forgive me and I'd love to be directed to anything posted.

I am keen to understand when the counseling reimbursement program started, under what/whose directive, if it was proactively offered or had to be discovered and sought by victims. To drone on, I first gave BSA notice of my abuse more than a decade ago and didn't get a reply, much less an offer of counseling reimbursement. (I do apologize for asking again, but it's all John's fault.)

John accepts the blame. 

[David CO]

3 hours ago, qwazse said:

IF you dig through some of the older topics, there are posts of erstwhile scouters summarily removed from the program asking about how to lodge appeals for reinstatement. (There was no such process.)

Many of those people were banned from scouting for non-sexual reasons.  I knew someone who was banned for protesting a camp closure (Owasippe) while in uniform.

I thought there was something blatantly unfair about the process.  The council guys could appear in uniform to speak in support of selling the camp, but the opponents were told they could not wear the uniform.  Double standard.

I believe he was banned for opposing the sale, not for wearing the uniform.  That was just the excuse they used to get rid of him.

Some people are talking about the IV files as if everyone who was banned from scouting was a pedophile.  This is wrong.  

 

Edited August 5, 2021 by David CO