Chapter 11 Announced - Part 4 Revised Plan

[fred8033]

QUESTION ... What about the other lawsuits BSA was facing?  Do they submit claims to the settlement trust?  Specifically GSUSA seeking millions for BSA infringement and damages.  If BSA gets out of bankruptcy, it's a new company and past debts are cleared.  Does GSUSA then go after the settlement trust?  

[Bronco1821]

4 hours ago, ThenNow said:

We’ve been married for coming up on 37 years and she’s heard very little about. She knew it happened and that it severely impacted me (and our lives), but that’s about it. No way I’m letting her read my POC. She doesn’t need a long shuffle through that not so little shop of horrors.

Add: I didn’t intend to imply I don’t admire and respect your ability to share it with her. Quite the opposite. 

I made the mistake of letting my wife read my POC.  It was the only way I could bring myself to give details on my experience.  I couldn’t speak the words but having them written down was supposed to be easier. It was a little horrifying, part of the fun I have been having dealing with all the reemergence of memories.  Pure hell.

[ThenNow]

6 hours ago, fred8033 said:

How would BSA continue to re-imburse for counseling? 

Trust account as part of the settlement. Makes perfect and total sense.

[ThenNow]

5 hours ago, Bronco1821 said:

 It was the only way I could bring myself to give details on my experience.  I couldn’t speak the words but having them written down was supposed to be easier. It was a little horrifying, part of the fun I have been having dealing with all the reemergence of memories.  Pure hell.

I’m sorry it was so difficult, but now she knows. There is good relational vulnerability in that. Well done. I should add that my wife has pretty much had enough of all my “stuff.” It’s been draining, expensive, exasperating and crushing for her. I don’t think she really wants or feels like she “needs” to know more than she does, though it’s precious little.

[ThenNow]

8 hours ago, MattR said:

I'm just curious, but from the victims in this, what helps? Does talking to other victims here help? Many pages ago someone mentioned a memorial. I've seen enough memorials and people crying at them to know they have power. A memorial sounds like a good idea to me. Has anyone raised that idea with the TCC?

Yes. 110%. I also think the distance of relative anonymity is a protection many of us need so we do not feel too exposed and threatened, though the threat may be hard to define or understand for others. Although I’ve been to “groups” for many of my issues, I’ve never had a therapist direct me to a support or therapy group for BSA sexual abuse survivors where we get to speak out mind and rant at current Scouters. I’m thinking about forming such a group, though.

One of the key differences here is the fact that we’re not dead. Most memorials are built on that premise, though they very much honor the horror that inflicted that death and the collateral pain and damage, as well. For many, it would be too much to bear. I think I would find it powerful for me. I can anticipate a real issue though. CSA is very unpleasant. Are people ready to honor those who’ve suffered such that they would go to such a place? If they didn’t, that would be another trauma layer (for me anyway). If something like this were created, maybe there needs to be one iteration fully public, maybe inclusive of all CSA victims but spurred by the BSA case, and another at Summit. 

8 hours ago, MattR said:

I had a scout make a walking meditation path as a memorial for his younger brother who died in an accident. He built it at a hospice. Anyway, it was one of the most impressive projects I'd ever seen.

That’s wonderful. We’ve helped build a butterfly garden at a treatment center for my wife’s cousin who took her life after years of waging war with addiction. These are very powerful things. I like the idea of a contemplative walk, perhaps with plaques along the way with quotes or things to pray and consider. Kind of like the identification plaques we had for plants and critters and tracks in our Nature Center and paths.

Yesterday afternoon I met with a young landscaping entrepreneur. He is impressive in so many ways. As I can’t help doing, I began asking all manner of questions, getting to know him, his background, his family, what drives him and the like. We got on to a shared story of loss. He and his wife lost their first baby to miscarriage. My wife and I lost our middle son, a twin, by full-term “umbilical anomaly.” (Nice way to say it.) He and a friend from his church want to put together a memorial for babies gone to soon, which is the phrase I like to use. I asked if I could help and we are going to connect to make it happen.

Edited June 22, 2021 by ThenNow

[ThenNow]

Does anyone know what million dollar marker the professional fee meter has now hit?

[mrjohns2]

2 hours ago, ThenNow said:

One of the key differences here is the fact that we’re not dead. Most memorials are built on that premise, though they very much honor the horror that inflicted that death and the collateral pain and damage, as well. For many, it would be too much to bear. I think I would find it powerful for me. I can anticipate a real issue though. CSA is very unpleasant. Are people ready to honor those who’ve suffered such that they would go to such a place? If they didn’t, that would be another trauma layer (for me anyway). If something like this were created, maybe there needs to be one iteration fully public, maybe inclusive of all CSA victims but spurred by the BSA case, and another at Summit. 

This was one of the thought processes when the Vietnam Wall was built. List the dead, but provide a place for the living to visit. It took many 20-30 years to visit due to the hurt. I agree it shouldn't just be for BSA, but in the larger community. I know of no other type of monument. The memorial could be to the loss.

[DavidLeeLambert]

8 hours ago, fred8033 said:

QUESTION ... What about the other lawsuits BSA was facing?  Do they submit claims to the settlement trust?  Specifically GSUSA seeking millions for BSA infringement and damages.  If BSA gets out of bankruptcy, it's a new company and past debts are cleared.  Does GSUSA then go after the settlement trust?  

In short, no, GSUSA will not have a claim against the trust under the draft plan.  They discuss (and complain about) their treatment in an Objection to an earlier draft plan, D.I.3579...

https://casedocs.omniagentsolutions.com/cmsvol2/pub_47373/6740a91f-c56d-41f6-aeb6-0ffbd851a3b7_3579.pdf

p. 6: "Specifically, the Disclosure Statement lacks information necessary to understand the feasibility of the Plan, the basis for the classification and treatment of Girl Scouts’ claims when compared to other Non-Abuse Litigation Claims."

p. 7: "Unlike the Convenience Claims and the General Unsecured Claims, both of which will receive a cash distribution either directly from the Debtors or from the Core Value Cash Pool, Non-Abuse Litigation Claims are limited to recovery from either (1) available insurance policies or proceeds, (2) proceeds from insurance settlement agreements, if any, or (3) co-liable non-debtors (if any) or their insurance proceeds. If the claimant is unable to recover the full amount of its claim from the aforementioned sources, it may recover upon an Allowed Convenience Claim in the lesser amount of $50,000 or the unsatisfied portion of the claim. [...]"

p. 9: "First, Girl Scouts has a claim for corrective advertising. [...] no less than $6,761,833.32."

"Second, Girl Scouts has a claim for disgorgement of Boy Scouts’ profits obtained based on Boy Scouts’ infringement of the Girl Scouts Marks. [...] | [...] no less than $4,998,301.00."

"Finally, Girl Scouts holds a claim for the costs of the Trademark Action, including reasonable attorneys’ fees. [...] Girl Scouts estimates that its claim for attorneys’ fees and costs is
in excess of $5.8 million and this claim continues to grow as the litigation continues. Furthermore, of this amount, approximately 40% of the claim, plus all of the ongoing increases of this amount, is a postpetition administrative expense claim."

In other words, GSUSA says its claim is for at least $17 million, but is worried that it will get less than 1% of its proper recovery for actual damages... although it should get 100% of its post-bankruptcy legal fees back.

That $17.5 million represents about $585 per female Scouts BSA member in 2019, or $23 per BSA youth member (of any age or gender) right now, or $10 per GSUSA girl, or $212 per abuse claimant.

To address the first part of your question, there have been about a half-dozen wrongful-death lawsuits that were pending at the date of bankruptcy and that have received the Court's permission to settle with insurance, each for between a half-million and a million dollars. I'm not sure if there are any other pending wrongful-death claims or non-abuse personal injury claims, but if any are still open when the Plan goes into effect, they'll have an option to collect up to $50,000 as a class 5 Convenience Claim and otherwise take their chances with insurers and any other responsible parties as a class 7 Non-Abuse Litigation Claim.

All of this with the caveat that the approved Plan may be very different from the current draft, or could even be written from scratch by another party; so perhaps it's possible for the final plan to explicitly say that GSUSA is is a higher class and gets 100%, or is in a lower class and gets absolutely nothing, same as Delaware BSA LLC.

[100thEagleScout]

Based on some of the earlier comments expressed here, it would seem my evaluation of it being a better plan, but not better insurance-wise was correct.  That took all but ten minutes of my time to figure out.

[ParkMan]

3 hours ago, ThenNow said:

Yes. 110%. I also think the distance of relative anonymity is a protection many of us need so we do not feel too exposed and threatened, though the threat may be hard to define or understand for others. Although I’ve been to “groups” for many of my issues, I’ve never had a therapist direct me to a support or therapy group for BSA sexual abuse survivors where we get to speak out mind and rant at current Scouters. I’m thinking about forming such a group, though.

One of the key differences here is the fact that we’re not dead. Most memorials are built on that premise, though they very much honor the horror that inflicted that death and the collateral pain and damage, as well. For many, it would be too much to bear. I think I would find it powerful for me. I can anticipate a real issue though. CSA is very unpleasant. Are people ready to honor those who’ve suffered such that they would go to such a place? If they didn’t, that would be another trauma layer (for me anyway). If something like this were created, maybe there needs to be one iteration fully public, maybe inclusive of all CSA victims but spurred by the BSA case, and another at Summit. 

A memorial/reflection location sounds like a good idea.   I do appreciate that memorial is not quite the right term here.  Perhaps even a foundation that promotes advancement of awareness and prevention of child sexual abuse as well.

I second the notion that it should be for all victims of child sexual abuse - not simply those received it through Scouting.  

Some sort of visual reminder at Philmont and the Summit would be a good idea.  Something visible to remind us all how important it is for us all to work everyday to keep children safe.

Once a settlement is reached, it strikes me that from a Scouting perspective there needs to be some energy spent on listening, understanding, and healing divisions and wounds.  During this time everyone of course wants to see what is best for kids and abuse victims - but there have also been a lot of hurt feelings.  It's important for the BSA to recognize that and work diligently to embrace those who were harmed through their involvement in Scouting.  

 

[100thEagleScout]

24 minutes ago, ParkMan said:

Once a settlement is reached, it strikes me that from a Scouting perspective there needs to be some energy spent on listening, understanding, and healing divisions and wounds.  During this time everyone of course wants to see what is best for kids and abuse victims - but there have also been a lot of hurt feelings.  It's important for the BSA to recognize that and work diligently to embrace those who were harmed through their involvement in Scouting.  

I’d be surprised if they allowed for something like that, but I’d be in support of it.

[mrjohns2]

36 minutes ago, ParkMan said:

Some sort of visual reminder at Philmont and the Summit would be a good idea.  Something visible to remind us all how important it is for us all to work everyday to keep children safe.

Once a settlement is reached, it strikes me that from a Scouting perspective there needs to be some energy spent on listening, understanding, and healing divisions and wounds.  During this time everyone of course wants to see what is best for kids and abuse victims - but there have also been a lot of hurt feelings.  It's important for the BSA to recognize that and work diligently to embrace those who were harmed through their involvement in Scouting.  

I agree. I don't think they would ever go for it. 

[Muttsy]

6 hours ago, ThenNow said:

 

Does anyone know what million dollar marker the professional fee meter has now hit?

 

Does this section mean what I think it means. Did BSA buy the Coalition’s votes for 10 million dollars?

“Coalition restructuring expenses?? This appears very deceptive. The Coalition was supposedly paying Brown Rudnick. Looks like all the survivors are. What does the TCC have to say about this?

[MattR]

6 hours ago, ThenNow said:

One of the key differences here is the fact that we’re not dead. Most memorials are built on that premise, though they very much honor the horror that inflicted that death and the collateral pain and damage, as well.

I'm not trying to argue, but, I thought you said people have committed suicide related to this.

The Vietnam Memorial, Holocaust memorials and just local war memorials mean as much to those that survived as relatives to those that didn't. Again, I'm not trying to, as you've said, poke. I'm just explaining my thoughts.

7 hours ago, ThenNow said:

For many, it would be too much to bear. I think I would find it powerful for me. I can anticipate a real issue though. CSA is very unpleasant. Are people ready to honor those who’ve suffered such that they would go to such a place? If they didn’t, that would be another trauma layer (for me anyway).

I can believe that. It often takes a very long time for a memorial to be installed.

 

[tnmule20]

Has anyone been able to get a copy of what the Ad Hoc committee sent to the LC's as to what their "bill" is?  Probably keeping that very close to the vest but would be interesting to see what the Ad Hoc committee is proposing per Council.