Chapter 11 Announced - Part 4 Revised Plan

[CynicalScouter]

9 minutes ago, ThenNow said:

I sued Aetna and won a class action settlement for wrongful denial of specific claims. What is the cause of action here? What have they wrongfully refused to pay or denied? Where’s the there there?

Some kind of impleader?

1. Victim sues BSA (or the Trust). If BSA sued, BSA brings names Trust/Trustee as real party in interest (since BSA's bankruptcy settles all claims against it and transfers to Trust) and steps aside.
2. Trustee then impleads/third party complaints the insurance company and demands insurance company indemnify?

Edited July 5, 2021 by CynicalScouter

[johnsch322]

7 minutes ago, ThenNow said:

I’d start with, because they didn’t get their crack at whittling down claims and they wanted BSA and the LCs to take up more of the cash slack so they don’t eventually have to, however that comes to pass. Defend, defend, defend. 

But if there is no way to recover from the insurance company's under this plan since there some thoughts that one can no longer sue than what would be defending.  In other words I believe they will defend/defend and eventually pay because they are still liable and they know they are.

I think my question was what might be called rhetorical?  Maybe that's the wrong word.

Edited July 5, 2021 by johnsch322

[ThenNow]

3 minutes ago, CynicalScouter said:

Some kind of impleader?

1. Victim sues BSA (or the Trust). If BSA sued, BSA brings names Trust/Trustee as real party in interest (since BSA's bankruptcy settles all claims against it and transfers to Trust) and steps aside.
2. Trustee then impleads/third party complaints the insurance company and demands insurance company indemnify?

I want to be there for voir dire and jury selection. They will need to impanel law professors and insurance experts. That’ll be a great trial! 

[ThenNow]

2 minutes ago, johnsch322 said:

eventually pay because they are still liable and they know they are.

I was just speaking to why they may not be celebrating the Plan. The 3-Ds can also be Delay, Delay & Delay, PLC. 

[Muttsy]

1 hour ago, johnsch322 said:

I'm sorry Muttsy I didn't know it was you I sold that car to.  But you really liked it when you bought it.

I forgive you Johnsch322. Now that you are forgiven, what is your address? And what was that thing that smelled so bad you left in the trunk. 
 

Happy 4th everyone. It feels good to get silly, if only for a day. 
 

Sincerely,

 

The Mutts

[Bronco1821]

I just found out I live in a SOL state which basically means I went through all this for nothing.  Why is it to my advantage to vote for the plan?  Seems like everyone wins but me... BSA, Insurance Companies, Attorneys, Local Councils and Chartered Organizations will all be ok while I still get to go through therapy.  Nothing seems to change with this nightmare, I finally thought that something good could come out of it....guess not.  For me this was not worth it.

Edited July 5, 2021 by Bronco1821

[1980Scouter]

7 minutes ago, Bronco1821 said:

I just found out I live in a SOL state which basically means I went through all this for nothing.  Why is it to my advantage to vote for the plan?  Seems like everyone wins but me... BSA, Insurance Companies, Attorneys, Local Councils and Chartered Organizations will all be ok while I still get to go through therapy.  Nothing seems to change with this nightmare, I finally thought that something good could come out of it....guess not.

I feel for your pain. Going through the process of recalling bad times is difficult.  Has your state legislature had any discussions on changing the law?

If enough people make a case to the gov't, maybe laws can be changed. 

Edited July 5, 2021 by 1980Scouter
Typo

[Muttsy]

50 minutes ago, Bronco1821 said:

I just found out I live in a SOL state which basically means I went through all this for nothing.  Why is it to my advantage to vote for the plan?  Seems like everyone wins but me... BSA, Insurance Companies, Attorneys, Local Councils and Chartered Organizations will all be ok while I still get to go through therapy.  Nothing seems to change with this nightmare, I finally thought that something good could come out of it....guess not.  For me this was not worth it.

What state were you in when you were abused.  Were you abused in any other states? Perhaps out of state travel to a camp or HA facility. The SOL issue is NOT cut and dried. You need qualified counsel. 

[mrjohns2]

I thought if you were past the SOL, via the plan, you could still get something vs nothing. No?

[johnsch322]

4 minutes ago, mrjohns2 said:

I thought if you were past the SOL, via the plan, you could still get something vs nothing. No?

You are correct. At minimum you could get $3500 if you don’t want to pursue further. 

[CynicalScouter]

4 hours ago, Bronco1821 said:

I just found out I live in a SOL state which basically means I went through all this for nothing.

Not necessarily.

Under the RSA document released by BSA, even those in SoL states are going to get SOMETHING. They put states into categories ranging from Open (=100% of claim value) to Gray 1, Gray 2, and Gray 3 (depending on how strict that state's SoL is and how insurmountable it is) and Closed (for the states that in the opinion of the TCC and Coalition lawyers it is effectively impossible to get out from under the lack of a SoL window).

Open    1.0
Gray 1    .50-.70
Gray 2    .30-.45
Gray 3    .10-.25
Closed    .01-.10

So even in a "Gray 3" state like Mississippi in which trying to get out of the SoL on the basis of fraudulent concealment is almost impossible, you are still looking at anywhere from 10%-25% of your claim value or, for a $1 million claim, $100,000-$250,000.

This is why as others have said you need to get legal counsel.

The ORIGINAL plan was to simply say there were open states/closed states and closed states = 1%. But this system at least allows for SOME kind of payment for those even in truly, utterly closed states.

                                                         

 

State	Tier
Alabama	Closed
Kansas	Closed
Oklahoma	Closed
Puerto Rico	Closed
South Dakota	Closed
Utah	Closed
Wyoming	Closed
ZZ / Federal	Closed
Connecticut	Gray 1
DC	Gray 1
Delaware	Gray 1
Georgia	Gray 1
Illinois	Gray 1
Massachusetts	Gray 1
New Mexico	Gray 1
Oregon	Gray 1
Pennsylvania	Gray 1
Washington	Gray 1
Iowa	Gray 2
Minnesota	Gray 2
New   Hampshire	Gray 2
North Dakota	Gray 2
Ohio	Gray 2
South Carolina	Gray 2
Tennessee	Gray 2
West Virginia	Gray 2
Alaska	Gray 3
Florida	Gray 3
Idaho	Gray 3
Indiana	Gray 3
Kentucky	Gray 3
Maryland	Gray 3
Michigan	Gray 3
Mississippi	Gray 3
Missouri	Gray 3
Nebraska	Gray 3
Nevada	Gray 3
Rhode Island	Gray 3
Texas	Gray 3
Virgin Islands	Gray 3
Virginia	Gray 3
Wisconsin	Gray 3
Arizona	Open
Arkansas	Open
California	Open
Colorado	Open
Guam	Open
Hawaii	Open
Louisiana	Open
Maine	Open
Montana	Open
New Jersey	Open
New York	Open
North Carolina	Open
Vermont	Open

 

Edited July 5, 2021 by CynicalScouter

[ThenNow]

8 hours ago, Muttsy said:

Were you abused in any other states? Perhaps out of state travel to a camp or HA facility.

Self-interested curiosity here. If you were abused in Gray 1- Gray 3, how does the Trustee determine into which shade of Gray bucket thou shalt be dropped? What is the abuse Tier in the G1 is different that in G2 is different than that in G3?

4 hours ago, CynicalScouter said:

So even in a "Gray 3" state like Mississippi in which trying to get out of the SoL on the basis of fraudulent concealment is almost impossible,

Is your conclusion of “almost impossible” based on case law and/or statute? 

 

Edited July 6, 2021 by ThenNow
Oops

[qwazse]

10 minutes ago, ThenNow said:

Self-interested curious here. If you were abused in Gray 1- Gray 3, how does the Trustee determine into which shade of Gray bucket thou shalt be dropped? What is the abuse Tier in the G1 is different that in G2 is different than that in G3? …

@ThenNow, it gets worse. There must be cases where the infarctions occurred in one state while the troop hailed from a different state. Councils now span state lines as the result of multiple mergers of recent decades. So an LC headquartered in one state may “inherit” cases in another state. I’m certain that will result in incongruous paperwork. It’s all the better that the trustee attend to assigning point values.

[ThenNow]

9 minutes ago, qwazse said:

There must be cases where the infarctions occurred in one state while the troop hailed from a different state.

There is at least one I know of for p-positive.

[CynicalScouter]

1 hour ago, ThenNow said:

Is your conclusion of “almost impossible” based on case law and/or statute? 

It's based on a) the comments made by the TCC during its Zoom town hall describing the tiers and b) this assessment by the National Conference of State Legislatures regarding Mississippi that found

Quote

The court has declined to apply the discovery statute to cases of delayed realization of the connection between the abuse and the victim's psychological injury; however, the issue has not been presented in the context of extensive memory repression. The standards for proving fraudulent concealment of a claim are so high as to be impracticable.

https://www.ncsl.org/research/human-services/state-civil-statutes-of-limitations-in-child-sexua.aspx