Chapter 11 Announced - Part 4 Revised Plan

[Muttsy]

46 minutes ago, mrjohns2 said:

 

52 minutes ago, Muttsy said:

It all gets gobbled up anyway, so why take bupkis for the privilege of putting the organization back in business with no real protections in place for kids?

No real protection in place for Scouts? You must not understand how current YP works. Is it perfect? Obviously not. Is it improving all of the time? Yes, more rules, more strictly enforced. 

 

I know that BSA has been doing “Youth Protection since at least 1986 when it launched the Three R’s program created by Dr Finkelhor. I know that 20% of the claims in this case occurred after 1986. 
 

Please edify me about any peer reviewed data driven studies published demonstrating the efficacy of that nifty acronym YP you reference. Don’t cite Dr Warren. She wasnt allowed to answer questions at BSA’s press conference in 2019  She’s not credible  

In the meantime please read the CHILDUSA report on abuse in scouting and especially its conclusions. Ask yourself whether BSA’s model could ever be made reasonable safe from child molesters. 
 

Also please read almost any scientific literature regarding the obsessive compulsive nearly unstoppable urges of these people. 
 

Finally, if Boeing had 84,000 crashes, would you put your kid on one?

[mrjohns2]

It is clear you don't know the history of YP and how it is not a monolithic and unchanging system. I know that Youth Protection has changed a lot over 35 years. I was a Scout in 1987 and can assure it, is not the same program. Heck, it is not the same program it was 3 years ago. Even in the last moth they have made changes to Scoutbook.com that have made it even harder to contact Scouts without being a registered leader. Things will get harder and more restrictive next year and the year after. 2 months ago they made clear even more items of YP based on new FAQs.

I think the BSA model can be made reasonably safe, and has been. Can it improve? Yes. Are the changes and clarifications they continue to make just like ones they make to airline procedures and they learn more? Yes. It is nifty that as new data comes about, one can adjust. 

I think that there have been plenty of plane crashes over the last 100 years. Yes, I still fly, since they are getting better and better every year. Plans made last year are not the same as those made in 1910.

Are you thinking the BSA can stop abusers from being OCD about abuse? That the BSA cannot stop. What the BSA can do is to make sure that units apply the YP policies and always have a second adult present to identify the abusers putting themselves in position to commit abuse.

Even the facilities have changed a lot of 35 years. Wide open, "gang" showers with no lockable doors. Anyone could wander from the youth to adult and back. Our current camp, all showers are individual and lockable. Huge difference. Were these in place in 1987? No. They have been built in the last 1-10 years depending on which shower-house. Each step like this will reduce risk and will eliminate loopholes.

In the end, like any activity a child participates in, a parent will have to make a judgement on the relative safety. Should I enroll my child in a program, should I let them go on this out, and should I let them go with these adults and other Scouts. That in the end, will still have to be true.

It is clear you do not trust the BSA and YP to protect children. Other parents will make a different judgement call. My family will do so knowing the program for that particular event, the adults in charge, and our own tolerance for risk. Just like everything else in life.

[CynicalScouter]

17 minutes ago, Muttsy said:

In the meantime please read the CHILDUSA report on abuse in scouting and especially its conclusions. Ask yourself whether BSA’s model could ever be made reasonable safe from child molesters. 

Do you mean this? https://childusa.org/wp-content/uploads/2020/10/Analysis-of-Victims-of-Abuse-in-Scouting-Part-1-1.pdf

Quote

By taking children into nature with only few adults, no oversight, and no child defensible spaces, Scouts exposes children to scenarios which make them situationally weak and vulnerable to abuse from perpetrators...In Scouts, children are taken away from safe communities of adults, put in communal spaces like showers and church basements, and brought across state lines far away from their homes. Situational disempowerment seems routine in Scouting, and it creates repeated instances in which children are susceptible to abuse.

In other words, the claim is that it is impossible to conduct Scouting safely or "reasonably" safely.

Does that surmise it?

[yknot]

Whenever YP comes up we seem to instantly sort into these completely polarized nuclear bomb positions. 

Yes, BSA has improved its YP. Yes, it is harder to abuse children in scouting today. Yes, child sexual abuse is a prevalent problem in society.

On the other side of the coin, has BSA done everything it can to minimize CSA? No, This forum is full of areas where BSA can and must improve. If scouting survives bankruptcy it will not survive a round two of child sexual abuse cases. That is simply the reality. One of the biggest conflicts I see is that one of the few action items in the BSA reorg plan is a focus on increasing membership. Historically, this National focus on increasing and maintaining membership is what has contributed to our youth protection gaps and resultant crisis. The focus needs to be on running a safe program. An increase in membership would be the hoped for result. 

[ThenNow]

3 hours ago, Muttsy said:

There is literally hundreds of billions of dollars in insurance. Chubb alone showed 175B in assets on its 2020 Annual financial statement. 

Two questions for the wizards in our midst. The eventual Plan and Disclosure Statement will attach the “comprehensive” list of insurance policies. Does anyone know if they will provide any segmentation data for the applicable fields (CO, LC, additional insured, co-insured, years of coverage...)? And, will we plebes have access to those policies or will they be hidden behind The Great and Powerful’s curtain, shrouded in smoke and guarded by a blustering hologram?

[CynicalScouter]

10 minutes ago, ThenNow said:

Does anyone know if they will provide any segmentation data for the applicable fields (CO, LC, additional insured, co-insured, years of coverage...)? And, will we plebes have access to those policies or will they be hidden behind The Great and Powerful’s curtain, shrouded in smoke and guarded by a blustering hologram?

All the policies are listed in the  THIRD AMENDED CHAPTER 11 PLAN OF REORGANIZATION FOR
BOY SCOUTS OF AMERICA AND DELAWARE BSA, LLC.

https://casedocs.omniagentsolutions.com/cmsvol2/pub_47373/75cad6f2-cc34-4b0c-896f-0d26815b1189_5368.pdf

SCHEDULE 2 BSA INSURANCE POLICIES

SCHEDULE 3 LOCAL COUNCIL INSURANCE POLICIES

That data includes most of what you are asking for at least as to BSA and the LCs going into the 1930s.

the BSA policies list

• Carrier Name
• Policy Number
• Start
• End

Council data is the same, but also includes some slightly different info because of the name changes and mergers (Current Council: Predecessor Council)

 

Edited July 1, 2021 by CynicalScouter

[CynicalScouter]

The RSA is now live

https://casedocs.omniagentsolutions.com/cmsvol2/pub_47373/1d5f346b-47b8-43d3-b4cf-4a0393aa8256_5466.pdf

Quote

After months of intensive negotiations, the Debtors have reached resolution with every single official and major creditor constituency in these chapter 11 cases. The Debtors now have a plan of reorganization that is supported by the Future Claimants’ Representative, the TCC, the Creditors’ Committee, JPM (the Debtors’ senior secured lender), the Coalition, and the AHCLC.

 

Edited July 1, 2021 by CynicalScouter

[CynicalScouter]

3 hours ago, CynicalScouter said:

Just FYI and as a frame of reference for if/when the RSA comes out:

The latest BSA plan was for BSA to pay in about $250 million as “BSA Settlement Trust Contribution”

Nothing has changed: BSA is still only putting in $250 million.

[CynicalScouter]

Big takeaways:

• Nothing has changed: BSA is still only putting in $250 million.
• Non-Monetary Commitments The BSA shall make certain non-monetary commitments, including, without limitation, youth protection measures, reporting, formation of a Child Protection Committee, and information sharing related to Abuse Claims, as set forth in full in the Term Sheet.
• Local Councils remain at $500 million.
• The COs are not covered under this, but "The Parties shall work in good faith to develop a protocol for addressing participation by Chartered Organizations in the benefits of the Channeling Injunction. Such settlements may occur prior to the Effective Date with the consent of all Parties."
• The judge will rule on the Hartford deal ("In connection with this request, the Debtors shall seek a determination of the Bankruptcy Court that the Debtors have no obligations under the Hartford Settlement.")
• The Settlement Trustee shall be Eric D. Green and will be appointed by the Bankruptcy Court. I assume it is this Eric D. Green. http://www.acctm.org/egreen/

I'm failing to see what the TCC got out of this versus the BSA plan from June. Maybe this will be discussed at the call tonight, but this doesn't look any different than what BSA was offering a month ago.

Edited July 1, 2021 by CynicalScouter

[ThenNow]

6 minutes ago, CynicalScouter said:

All the policies are listed in the  THIRD AMENDED CHAPTER 11 PLAN OF REORGANIZATION FOR
BOY SCOUTS OF AMERICA AND DELAWARE BSA, LLC.

Yes, thanks. But, I want to see MY policies. 

[CynicalScouter]

3 minutes ago, ThenNow said:

Yes, thanks. But, I want to see MY policies. 

Oh, ok. Sorry. Misunderstood.

[ThenNow]

2 minutes ago, CynicalScouter said:

The Settlement Trustee shall be Eric D. Green and will be appointed by the Bankruptcy Court. I assume it is this Eric D. Green. http://www.acctm.org/egreen/

I don’t know about this fella. His CV and educational background are a tad light on substance. Or not.

[CynicalScouter]

2 minutes ago, ThenNow said:

His CV and educational background are a tad light on substance.

He's a professional mediator for looks like the last 30-40 years.

His bio from his company: http://www.resolutionsllc.com/principals.htm

He was the trustee/monitor in some major mortgage cases involving the Great Recession, DOJ, and the banks.

• On August 20, 2014, Professor Green was named as the independent Monitor of the Consumer Relief portion of the settlement agreement between the United States Department of Justice, six states and Bank of America, resolving, among other issues, claims related to the Bank’s practices concerning residential mortgage-backed securities.
• In addition to the foregoing, on February 11, 2016, Professor Green was named as the independent Monitor of the Consumer Relief portion of the settlement agreement between the State of New York and Morgan Stanley, and on April 11, 2016, Professor Green was named as the independent Monitor of the Consumer Relief portion of the settlement agreement between the United States Department of Justice, the States of California and Illinois, and The Goldman Sachs Group, Inc.

[MYCVAStory]

34 minutes ago, yknot said:

Whenever YP comes up we seem to instantly sort into these completely polarized nuclear bomb positions. 

Yes, BSA has improved its YP. Yes, it is harder to abuse children in scouting today. Yes, child sexual abuse is a prevalent problem in society.

I have a hunch you're going to hear in the Town Hall meeting tonight how the TCC has addressed its YP concerns for change moving forward.

[CynicalScouter]

The plan to disallow (or only allow 1%) of a time-barred claim has been re-written. There are now "tiers"

Tier Scaling Factor
Open 1.0
Gray 1 .50-.70
Gray 2 .30-.45
Gray 3 .10-.25
Closed .01-.10

Which I believe translates as:

Claim from an open state = 100%

Claim from states in a "Gray 1" 50-70%, etc.

And what state is in what category is listed.

So, if you are in Alabama ("closed") you are only getting 1-10% of the claim value.

Connecticut 50-70% *Gray 1"

Iowa 30-45% "Gray 2"

Virginia 10-25% "Gray 3"

New York 100% "Open"

The insurance companies are going to completely and totally bonkers. This basically says that, despite the fact that there is no SoL lookback in Virginia and likely will not BE one enacted by Virginia, the insurance companies are on the hook for 10-25% of a victim's claim anyway.

They are going to flip the heck out.

 

Edited July 1, 2021 by CynicalScouter