Chapter 11 Announced - Part 4 Revised Plan

[johnsch322]

16 minutes ago, mrjohns2 said:

This is helpful. As I have been changing my mind on lawyer fees, partly it is due to hearing these types of details. All of the staff and professionals come out of those fees. It isn’t one person having to get paid. It is many that SOMEONE is paying upfront. 

Obviously I cannot speak for everyone I can only tell my story.  What I can say is that the claimants lawyers are in the business of practicing law.  The imperative word in that last sentence being business.  They all have expenses rent, utilities, support staff etc. etc.  Most if not all of these lawyers took these cases on a contingency basis meaning if there is no recovery they get nothing and not all contingency cases are won.  However I will say that if the minimal $9,000 is all that is recovered per claim than I am confident that all the firms with a large amount of cases will at least clear their expenses.  Also from what I can garner not all claims will receive any money.  Some will be denied.  Secondly they all have a fiduciary obligation to maximize the amount recovered.  

[CynicalScouter]

Boy Scouts May Drop $650 Million Insurance Deal Absent Victims’ Backing

https://www.wsj.com/articles/boy-scouts-may-drop-650-million-insurance-deal-absent-victims-backing-11624467587
 

Quote

A Hartford spokesman told the Journal that its settlement with the Boy Scouts was agreed to after extensive negotiations and that if the deal isn’t ultimately approved by the bankruptcy court, the insurance company would vigorously defend its position in related coverage litigation.

“We believe the agreement is a positive step towards a global resolution which will support the BSA’s efforts to equitably compensate survivors,” the Hartford spokesman said.

 

Edited June 24, 2021 by CynicalScouter

[ThenNow]

17 hours ago, ThenNow said:

Back to my preponderance and discovery musings. How does the typical Great and Powerful Oz adjudicate such a thing as our multitudinous diverse and complex cases? What methods of discovery, examination…subpoena powers, etc.? Those other cases had pretty clear claimant “creditors.” Not so much in this quagmire. 

Let’s settle down, class. Don’t everyone raise their hand at one time. No talking over each other. I don’t want to say any names...help? Also, while I’m peeing into the wind, does the Man Behind the Curtain have a goal of helping us maximize our award or slap us down as much as possible? 

[ThenNow]

3 hours ago, CynicalScouter said:

I very, very much get the impression that some people in this forum simply wouldn't be happy with any outcome that involves BSA, the LCs, and/or the COs paying one dime and that any costs over that 10 cent piece is "unreasonable" or "unfair".

Want to really blow some minds? Calculate the interest on an award for a 50 year old injury. I know it’s not paid, but...big numbers.

[Muttsy]

There is a rumor circulating that LDS is mediating with the TCC/Coalition/FCR next week. Has anyone heard anything about that? 

I seem to remember reading somewhere that LDS sponsored troops account for more than 3000 cases. 

I wonder if anything similar is happening with the Methodists, Catholic Dioceses etc. 

[Muttsy]

Wow!

 

[johnsch322]

I think we might see other states open up own investigations.  

[Bronco1821]

32 minutes ago, Muttsy said:

There is a rumor circulating that LDS is mediating with the TCC/Coalition/FCR next week. Has anyone heard anything about that? 

I seem to remember reading somewhere that LDS sponsored troops account for more than 3000 cases. 

I wonder if anything similar is happening with the Methodists, Catholic Dioceses etc. 

That is interesting.  In my case, the LDS Church selected all the leaders and in my opinion was more protective of my abuser than BSA.  I think the LDS Church definitely needs to step up.  I emailed my attorney to see how I could help.... but I didn’t get any response.  I know, he probably doesn’t need my help.  But my question is will Chartered Organizations only be responsible for cases where they were involved or will they put money into the pot for everyone?

[CynicalScouter]

1 hour ago, Muttsy said:

There is a rumor circulating that LDS is mediating with the TCC/Coalition/FCR next week. Has anyone heard anything about that? 

Mediators Report #3 said mediation sessions occurring around June 3 included "one of the Chartered Organizations." https://casedocs.omniagentsolutions.com/cmsvol2/pub_47373/e97b2e05-5d1f-47ac-a4e2-541eb269322c_5219.pdf

As I said at the time: the only CO that matters worth a bit would be the LDS. The Methodists would have been reported not as a single CO but as the "United Methodist Ad Hoc Committee." The wording ("one of the") leads me to think that meant LDS.

It gets trickier with the Methodists and the Catholic Dioceses because there is no one, single, central authority for either here in the U.S.  In other words, if I wanted to negotiate with the "head" of the Methodist Churches, there's no one to call. And each Catholic Diocese is independent and autonomous from the others which is why you have the situation where SOME dioceses and archdioceses have appeared, but others have not. But the LDS? Yep, that's one phone call to one person.

For example, I am outright shocked the Archdiocese of New York has never filed an appearance where the Archdioceses of Los Angeles and San Francisco and the Diocese of Brooklyn all have.

Edited June 25, 2021 by CynicalScouter

[ThenNow]

1 hour ago, Bronco1821 said:

But my question is will Chartered Organizations only be responsible for cases where they were involved or will they put money into the pot for everyone?

I’m sure it has to be an exposure/risk calculus just like the LCs. Cases that implicate them, closed/open state, how many live/recent claims not time-barred, and, etc. Terribly complex to figure out. When I looked through the CO list and saw all the duplicate or similar names. Lots to sift through and arrange and label in neat little stacks. 

[ThenNow]

Many, many pages ago when I was talking about how the boys in our Troop felt about our SM, I said something to the effect that we utterly revered him. A couple folks who replied outright mocked me. I am doing more research for my case and pulled this from a 2018 BSA CSA case. (https://www.courthousenews.com/wp-content/uploads/2018/09/Boy-Scouts-ORDER.pdf.)

Take a peek if you're curious, especially those who ridiculed my characterization of our esteem for him and why it further complicated my response to the abuse, failure to report and overall confusion. I find this pretty powerful stuff and descriptive of how he was elevated to us and by the organization. Can't wait to use this before the Trustee. (Slightly edited to avoid annoying citations and footnotes.)

 

[DavidLeeLambert]

One more non-abuse claim withdrawn, and the attorneys who represented the claimant are withdrawing from the case as well.

"Estate of Sherrye Howell", claim #225, $750,000.

D.I 5404, 5405, 5406.

https://casedocs.omniagentsolutions.com/cmsvol2/pub_47373/a20977fe-b5a0-4d58-9ab4-712ae5741f6f_5406.pdf

https://casedocs.omniagentsolutions.com/cmsvol2/pub_47373/bed8d7fa-e731-44e7-bf84-c75d421d9a6a_5405.pdf

https://casedocs.omniagentsolutions.com/cmsvol2/pub_47373/f8668973-8308-4b67-a726-d6202241d0db_5404.pdf

[ThenNow]

On 6/23/2021 at 1:27 PM, Muttsy said:

Some are involved in other mass tort cases where they ended up taking 75% of the pot as compensation to the trustee and his lawyers. 

I don't think was posted yet. Per the Amended Plan and Disclosure Statement, Pages 173-4:

13. Settlement Trust Expenses The Settlement Trust shall pay all Settlement Trust Expenses from the Settlement Trust Assets. The Settlement Trust shall bear sole responsibility with respect to the payment of the Settlement Trust Expenses. Additionally, the Settlement Trust shall promptly pay all reasonable and documented Settlement Trust Expenses incurred by any Protected Party for any and all liabilities, costs or expenses as a result of taking action on behalf of or at the direction of the Settlement Trust.

16. Compensation of Settlement Trustee and Retention of Professionals The Settlement Trustee shall be entitled to compensation as provided for in the Settlement Trust Agreement. The Settlement Trustee may retain and reasonably compensate, without Bankruptcy Court approval, counsel and other professionals as reasonably necessary to assist in their duties as Settlement Trustee, subject to the terms of the Settlement Trust Agreement. All fees and expenses incurred in connection with the foregoing shall be payable from the Settlement Trust as provided for in the Settlement Trust Agreement.

Edited June 25, 2021 by ThenNow
Oops. Missed a spot.

[SilverPalm]

On 6/24/2021 at 10:03 AM, CynicalScouter said:

This is a separate argument and one that I think worth having. To what extent do high hourly rates and high contingency fees deny victims what they are due? I don't know where that answer lies (20%? 25%? 35%?) but agree there's a debate there.

Once again, I'm a day late to reply.  Apologies in advance for the tardiness.

I think this is where many of us are coming from.  Reading the eloquent posts from several of the victims here illustrates the point even further - why should a legal firm expect to take 40% of the compensation offered by the BSA to victims and survivors?  Many of these men have suffered for decades, and have pointed out that the abuse they suffered has severely impacted their lives.  Careers folding, earning potentials shattered, families wounded by fathers who simply cannot be all they want to be... of course the BSA needs to pay out.  And it needs to be enough to hurt the BSA.  Because these men, these former Scouts have been hurting ever since they were children.  Is any amount of money enough to assuage that?

I think I speak for many when I say that it is good and right that the BSA lives up to its promises and does everything in its power to, if not make this right, then at least make it less wrong, should such a thing be possible.  

I, however, fail to understand how a legal firm should be entitled to taking a third or four tenths or half of the award simply by virtue of having the knowledge of navigating the legal world.  Yes, I understand they are making and have made this settlement possible in the first place.  But if the BSA pays out a billion dollars, why should the survivors have to split up only a little better than half of that?  Is having a legal degree really worth $400 million?  Wouldn't that money be better off with the victims, the ones who actually had to live with this pain?

These lawyers didn't suffer the indignities and the pain of the assaults.  They didn't then go on to live shattered lives, to watch their potential earnings shrink, to watch their families grow distant because of this ever-present gulf they simply couldn't understand... they answered the phone, did some paperwork, and spent a year in court.  Right? Is that worth taking all this money from the victims?  

This is not intended as a criticism of the victims, nor of their right to legal representation.  Far from it.  If I had my way, these folks would have the finest representation available to them. 

That said, the sheer magnitude of the potential windfall for these legal firms is an embarrassment, especially considering that every dollar they take is a dollar not going to the victims.

I'm not a member of the legal profession.  I do not know what's typical in cases like this, or fair, or whether those two ideas even align.  But I do know that it feels wrong for legal firms to be taking 30 or 40% of the money that the BSA is presenting in an effort to set right the wrongs of the past... it sure seems that way to me.

That's all.  I think lawyers are providing a valuable service in giving voice to the voiceless... but taking such a significant chunk of the settlement money just smacks of indecency to me.  I think that's where the "(deleted) lawyer" comments are coming from.  The victims should be compensated.  The lawyers should be paid for their work.  But how much is really fair?  How much is even appropriate?

I don't know.  Maybe I shouldn't even be commenting on this.  I'm an outsider.  I'm just not sure that taking 40% of the settlement money is really the best way to help make survivors whole.

Edited June 28, 2021 by elitts
disallowed commentary for this thread.

[vol_scouter]

SilverPalm,

Thank you for your post.  It expresses my thoughts far better than I would have been able to express.  You have captured what so many of us feel.  For the US, one needs to make about $500,000 to be in the top 1% of wage earners {How to Be in the Richest 1% Around the World - Bloomberg}.  Some of the attorneys appear to be far above that amount.