Chapter 11 Announced - Part 4 Revised Plan

[johnsch322]

Does this sound somewhat familiar

Police were not to be called on predatory coaches at USA Gymnastics, says former worker – Press Enterprise (pe.com)

And what was the payout to the victims for this misguided, shameful, coverup/hide policy? 

[ThenNow]

10 hours ago, johnsch322 said:

BSA will be allowed to live on but mine and possibly 100's of thousands of lives were destroyed by BSA policies of cover up and hide.

Honestly, I think this is the most misunderstood, overlooked and perhaps ignored part of this (and any CSA) case. We were abused, which is a catastrophic psychological and sometimes physical trauma. Use significant brain trauma as an analogy of severity. As with some traumatic brain injuries, the soul/psyche and the relationships and impacts they have on the body never fully heal. In the Proof of Claim, we were asked to list impacts. It listed prompts of the ways our lives may have been damaged as a result of the abuse. We were asked to list medications, therapists, treatments, social problems, sexual problems, legal trouble, career problems, addiction issues, and, etc. For me, this was the longest section. The abuse was the abuse. Terrible. Awful. Dark. Evil. Yes. Ok. Ok. We all get it. BUT, understanding what the last 50 years has been like is the part I think some who play the “You guys are abusing the current and future Scouts, and are trying to destroy Scouting” walk right by on your way to the lawyer and victim bashing party.

BSA will emerge with a self-imposed limp. We entered with a limp, if we were VERY lucky. Psychologically, some of us used crutches and wheelchairs. Some came in on gurneys, pushed by family members and noble attorneys. Some are long buried, not all gone by natural causes. Others ran to the gates, God bless ‘em. Today’s “King for a Day” decree would be that all the “haters” (or any who would be brave and empathetic enough to do it) would be visited by the Ghost of BSA Abuse Past. You would glimpse, not experience, the trauma and walk with one of us through the decades that have followed. I truly don’t think most people understand the loss of “our lives” this has been for us. Some things you take for granted, we were denied. I can barely look at some photos of my boys at certain ages because I see their young, innocence faces and I know I failed them in that moment. I attached pages of medical and treatment bills to my POC and it was daunting and heartbreaking to see them. I read every one. Treatment reports. Intake questionnaires. Diagnoses and program reports. Ugh. My wife endured so much. I see and reported the business losses. While I was in the psych hospital and then a national treatment center’s “Professionals In Crisis” program, one business went south. My big career opportunity of a lifetime, down the crapper. I have scars on my body inflicted by yours truly. Outward signs or inner torment. I spent a lifetime battling addiction, a classic maladaptive coping strategy. I wish you could understand. BSA will emerge to pursue its mission.. We may get some money. There will be no emergence. No great corporate sigh of relief. No monkey off our back. No live to fight another day. This is not and never was about healing or vengeance for that matter. Both are in God’s hands. This is recompense to child victims and BSA offered it. BSA offered it because it happened on their watch and, effectively, by their hand. 

Edited June 24, 2021 by ThenNow

[RememberSchiff]

On 6/22/2021 at 3:05 PM, tnmule20 said:

Has anyone been able to get a copy of what the Ad Hoc committee sent to the LC's as to what their "bill" is?  Probably keeping that very close to the vest but would be interesting to see what the Ad Hoc committee is proposing per Council.

No word from our LC high-ups, not even at camp. Perhaps after the decision deadline and summer camp?

The prospect of losing a local camp which serves more of our local council scouts in a year than all 4 HA combined do in 5 or more years is hard to accept.

My $0.02,

 

[CynicalScouter]

On 6/23/2021 at 10:08 PM, johnsch322 said:

BSA dropped the ball?  Heck they did the proverbial we own the ball and we make the rules.  Their rule was deny deny,  and hide the facts. 

Right. Again, this is the part that is very quickly glossed over. BSA didn't voluntarily change its ways: it was forced to via lawsuits filed by lawyers (deleted) on behalf of victims.

On 6/23/2021 at 10:08 PM, johnsch322 said:

Fair and rational outcome?  What would you consider fair and rational?

I believe I know what the answer will be: BSA pays nothing or next to nothing because that was "back then".

Edited June 28, 2021 by elitts
disallowed commentary for this thread.

[Eagle94-A1]

27 minutes ago, RememberSchiff said:

No word from our LC high-ups, not even at camp. Perhaps after the decision deadline and summer camp?

The prospect of losing a local camp which serves more of our local council scouts in a year than all 4 HA combined do in 5 or more years is hard to accept.

My $0.02,

 

You will not hear anything because they had to sign Non-Disclosure Agreements in order to be part of the deal. That question, and others related to the lawsuit were asked recently at a meeting. All they could say was property would need to be sold to pay the council's share.

EDITED: Best information I have found on the topic is reviewing all the case docs that @CynicalScouter and others have been posting.

12 minutes ago, CynicalScouter said:

Again, your entire premise seems to be that the victims of child sexual abuse have no right to seek legal counsel (but it is perfectly OK if BSA has their own legal team). That's greedy. That's unconscionable.

I cannot speak for others, but for me it is the outrageous monthly fees on both sides that is upsetting. I would rather that money go to the victims directly. Again for me, the lawyers getting a large percentage ( I hope it's not the 40% someone posted, but even 35% which I am told is the average is too high IMHO) is also upsetting. I would rather 85-90% of the fund go the victims instead of 65-60%

BUT I will give credit, where credit is due. The TCC lawyers did promised, give 10% of their earning back to the fund. Wish BSA's lawyers would do the same.

Edited June 24, 2021 by Eagle94-A1

[ThenNow]

9 minutes ago, Eagle94-A1 said:

Again for me, the lawyers getting a large percentage ( I hope it's not the 40% someone posted, but even 35% which I am told is the average is too high IMHO) is also upsetting. I would rather 85-90% of the fund go the victims instead of 65-60%

It is and some higher, I hear tell. Problem being, no attorneys? No cases. No cases? No Chapter 11. No Chapter 11? No Settlement Trust. “You can’t have one. You can’t have one. You can’t have one without the o-ther.” (I want all who sang along to raise their hand in shared humiliation.)

[CynicalScouter]

On 6/24/2021 at 9:39 AM, Eagle94-A1 said:

Again for me, the lawyers getting a large percentage ( I hope it's not the 40% someone posted, but even 35% which I am told is the average is too high IMHO) is also upsetting. I would rather 85-90% of the fund go the victims instead of 65-60% BUT I will give credit, where credit is due. The TCC lawyers did promised, give 10% of their earning back to the fund. Wish BSA's lawyers would do the same.

This is a separate argument and one that I think worth having. To what extent do high hourly rates and high contingency fees deny victims what they are due? I don't know where that answer lies (20%? 25%? 35%?) but agree there's a debate there.

(deleted)

I very, very much get the impression that some people in this forum simply wouldn't be happy with any outcome that involves BSA, the LCs, and/or the COs paying one dime and that any costs over that 10 cent piece is "unreasonable" or "unfair".

Edited June 28, 2021 by elitts
disallowed commentary for this thread.

[johnsch322]

20 minutes ago, Eagle94-A1 said:

I cannot speak for others, but for me it is the outrageous monthly fees on both sides that is upsetting. I would rather that money go to the victims directly. Again for me, the lawyers getting a large percentage ( I hope it's not the 40% someone posted, but even 35% which I am told is the average is too high IMHO) is also upsetting. I would rather 85-90% of the fund go the victims instead of 65-60%

From what I understand once the settlement trust is established it will be our lawyers (for those of us that have one) that will be presenting our individual cases to establish valuations.  Theoretically if $100,000 is on the table they can make a case for $200,000 (as an example) and thus earn their fees.  My lawyer/lawyers help me prepare my claim and thru their questioning I am sure it is much stronger just because of that.  I believe that is why the TCC is encouraging survivors to have legal representation.

[fred8033]

14 hours ago, MattR said:

The point is, my troop putting on a good program is about all I can control these days, and helping some scouts make a good memory is all I really care about because it's the only thing that I can do that might help scouting.

That should be the standard goal for all of us; every day of our scouting careers.  It's the whole reason people have donated their lives and material and money to scouting.  

[ThenNow]

6 minutes ago, johnsch322 said:

My lawyer/lawyers help me prepare my claim and thru their questioning I am sure it is much stronger just because of that. 

This unabashedly and unashamedly self-serving (may help other pro se claimants), but how so? Not asking for details, of course, but in what areas did they help you flesh out your POC? I can imagine and it has caused me some anxiety, but not yet enough to terminate my relationship with current counsel.  

[tnmule20]

46 minutes ago, Eagle94-A1 said:

You will not hear anything because they had to sign Non-Disclosure Agreements in order to be part of the deal.

Any idea who did and who did not sign the NDA's?  That would give an indication of who is or is not going to participate. 

[CynicalScouter]

11 minutes ago, tnmule20 said:

Any idea who did and who did not sign the NDA's?  That would give an indication of who is or is not going to participate. 

I was told by my Key-3 EVERY Council signed the NDAs in order to see what was/was not being discussed and debated and to participate in some of the Zoom calls and other things.

That does NOT indicate who is or is not going to participate. I suspect there will be several councils that, having seen what the price tag is they are being tagged with, are going to say "no thanks".

As I understand it, Councils have been given their price tags (from the Ad Hoc Committee of Local Councils) and told to vote by July 9 if they are in or out.

Edited June 24, 2021 by CynicalScouter

[johnsch322]

22 minutes ago, ThenNow said:

Not asking for details, of course, but in what areas did they help you flesh out your POC?

As I have stated in posts previously all of this has been like pulling a scab off of a wound.  The first person I talked to was someone on the end of an 800# and it did not go well.  She ended up saying they would send me a link to the perversion files.  When I called back I left a message and no one got back to me and I am sure it was just an intake person whom I had talked to. 

I did a little research and found a lawyer who specialized in survivor cases and had started his career as a psychiatrist and transitioned into law.  I left a message and he personally got back to me.  he spent quite of bit of time talking to and listening to me.  He explained the history of what was transpiring and made me feel extremely comfortable.  He set up an appointment with a psychiatrist who could affirm for the courts that indeed I had the symptoms of past abuse.  He followed up with me and offered to have professionals reach out to me to help  with my feelings with no out of pocket costs.  Unfortunately he came to an untimely death and it was with great sorrow i heard of his passing.  Fortunately for me his son was part of practice.  His son has the positive attributes of his father.  I am able to text him at anytime with any of my concerns and worries and he always gets back to me.  When this into bankruptcy my lawyer informed me that he was going to assign me to one of the larger firms (I think that they represent about 1600 claimants).  He explained to me that I would be better served by the bankruptcy expertise that my current representation has and that with so many claimants they would have a seat at the main table. 

This firm called me multiple times and explained what was happening and each and every time it was a lawyer.  We set up a time to talk to do the POC and spent about 2 hours going over it.  She took her time asked questions had me expound upon what I said.  She probed but she was empathetic and made me feel comfortable even between the tears.  I opened up about something I had personally done after my own sexual abuse which I believe could be very important at some point of time.  She is the only person I have ever told that to. 

This is probably more than you had asked for and may not even be helpful to you but believe me writing these words is helpful to me.

[ThenNow]

13 minutes ago, johnsch322 said:

This is probably more than you had asked for and may not even be helpful to you but believe me writing these words is helpful to me.

Nope. Exactly what I hoped to hear. And me, as well. Well done. P-perfect!

[mrjohns2]

32 minutes ago, johnsch322 said:

This is probably more than you had asked for and may not even be helpful to you but believe me writing these words is helpful to me.

This is helpful. As I have been changing my mind on lawyer fees, partly it is due to hearing these types of details. All of the staff and professionals come out of those fees. It isn’t one person having to get paid. It is many that SOMEONE is paying upfront.