Chapter 11 Announced - Part 4 Revised Plan

[CynicalScouter]

40 minutes ago, Eagle1993 said:

I expect BSA is aware of the shots over the bow that the Methodist and Catholic churches have already launched and the churn that has already caused.

Right, both nationally and locally the Methodists have been told to NOT sign any recharters that take them past December 31, 2021. Some did (summer recharters) but most didn't.

I know my council typically sends out the "it's recharter time!" emails starting in September. Once that happens, that is when the very awkward conversations are going to happen in earnest.

Right now, the Methodists and Catholics have the leverage, I agree. But the question is how much of it is a bluff?

[ThenNow]

This is long (42 pages) but worth a read. Insurers hitting things squarely in the forehead with a cinder block. 

https://casedocs.omniagentsolutions.com/cmsvol2/pub_47373/1bdaf160-5b90-4cd9-a6c9-d4d1bb957f5c_6058.pdf

[ThenNow]

1 hour ago, CynicalScouter said:

Right, both nationally and locally the Methodists have been told to NOT sign any recharters that take them past December 31, 2021. Some did (summer recharters) but most didn't.

I know my council typically sends out the "it's recharter time!" emails starting in September. Once that happens, that is when the very awkward conversations are going to happen in earnest.

Right now, the Methodists and Catholics have the leverage, I agree. But the question is how much of it is a bluff?

What is the vested interest of these COs in continuing to "host" Scouting? A long while ago, we discussed how Scouting is a valued component of many congregation's menu of youth and community services. Is that still widely the case? Is that their singular "compelling interest" counterbalancing the current abandonment and risk of tremendous liability exposure in the near term. "I guess my 'partner' must not value me as much as they oozed, so perhaps it's time for a divorce?" I'm curious and don't have great insight into this topic or perhaps too much else. Thanks, in advance. 

Edited August 18, 2021 by ThenNow

[ThenNow]

https://www.seattletimes.com/business/judge-mulls-key-rulings-in-boy-scouts-of-america-bankruptcy/

[Eagle1993]

25 minutes ago, ThenNow said:

What is the vested interest of these COs in continuing to "host" Scouting? A long while ago, we discussed how Scouting is a valued component of many congregation's menu of youth and community services. Is that still widely the case? Is that their singular "compelling interest" counterbalancing the current abandonment and risk of tremendous liability exposure in the near term. "I guess my 'partner' must not value me as much as they oozed, so perhaps it's time for a divorce?" I'm curious and don't have great insight into this topic or perhaps too much else. Thanks, in advance. 

I think the primary reason is they see it as within their ministry.  They believe scouting values are important for youth and by serving as a CO, they can help youth obtain these values.

[RememberSchiff]

12 minutes ago, Eagle1993 said:

I think the primary reason is they see it as within their ministry.  They believe scouting values are important for youth and by serving as a CO, they can help youth obtain these values.

...and often, even if they are not congregation members.

[CynicalScouter]

1 hour ago, ThenNow said:

This is long (42 pages) but worth a read. Insurers hitting things squarely in the forehead with a cinder block. 

https://casedocs.omniagentsolutions.com/cmsvol2/pub_47373/1bdaf160-5b90-4cd9-a6c9-d4d1bb957f5c_6058.pdf

That was Hartford's objections. Here's Century's

https://casedocs.omniagentsolutions.com/cmsvol2/pub_47373/deb019d8-d9de-45e1-84eb-36c26104c262_6083.pdf

This is a key part: "The Plan violates section 502 of the Bankruptcy Code by replacing the Code’s claims-allowance process with a non-adversarial, non-judicial process that would allow legally unenforceable claims"

in other words, the Bankruptcy Court can NOT make a legally unenforceable claim (due to statutes of limitation) suddenly enforceable.

[ThenNow]

1 minute ago, CynicalScouter said:

That was Hartford's objections. Here's Century's

Yeah. Ya read one, ya read ‘em all. Jk. I shoulda posted both. I’m going to ask how many read them by COB tonight. 😴

[yknot]

6 hours ago, Eagle1993 said:

"It's tough to make predictions, especially about the future." - Yogi Berra

Yogi is 100% correct ... but I'll venture out a bit as it relates to bankruptcy.  I'm not convinced most parents care about the bankruptcy.  Occasionally it comes up ... but they see our Pack is lead by parents they know.  We are not strangers and there is still some interest in scouting.  I really doubt that amount BSA pays has any impact on recruiting.  The real impact on the program going forward will be a mix of Covid, volunteers and what families value.

That's because other than increased fees, it hasn't had much effect unless you are in a council that is selling camps. Most councils, at least by me, are still saying business as usual. If BSA survives bankruptcy by leaving COs vulnerable, that's going to change quickly. BSA has support because it's seen as a moral force for good in the community by certain groups. If COs that have been sponsoring units in good faith start getting sued, that won't be the case. Also, I think scouting can be a bit of an echo chamber. We hear what we want to hear and dismiss what we don't. What I hear outside my scouting/community/church circles when talking to people who don't know I'm involved in scouting is different. The world is not on fire because scouting has abused tens of thousands of little boys, but there are huge demographics of parents who might smile and tuck a buck in your popcorn jar because they know your kid from little league but will never let their own kids within 100 miles of a scout unit. 

[MYCVAStory]

4 hours ago, CynicalScouter said:

What this means is that starting tomorrow, TCC/FCR/Coalition or any party can file their own reorganization plan for BSA and starting October 19, with the court's permission, send it out for a vote.

By virtue of the current RSA those three cannot until October 18 deadline is reached OR the debtor (BSA) ends the RSA voluntarily by submitting a new plan thereby invalidating the existing RSA. 

[ThenNow]

1 hour ago, yknot said:

Also, I think scouting can be a bit of an echo chamber. We hear what we want to hear and dismiss what we don't. What I hear outside my scouting/community/church circles when talking to people who don't know I'm involved in scouting is different.

You know my love for the random and anecdotal. Here's today's minuscule sample "survey." I live in a wee pocket [not the one Mr. Schiavoni was in the other day] between a metro area and a mid-sized town. Pretty much all those who work along the half mile stretch I frequent are known by and to me. I was in the petrol station and snackery talking with two gals my age just now. (May I say the 'g' word?) They asked what was what and saw I'm looking a bit bleary, not only because I was checking out with a 44 oz. Diet Coke. I gave a quick "BSA bankruptcy" reference and they were off to the races. They had nothing but hellfire and damnation. The line was held up and I started feeling uncomfortable for the patrons behind me. This isn't an unusual or isolated occurrence, though I grant typically not with the Scouting age parental unit crowd. [Nod to the Coneheads] I know there are folks out there in my bracket with Scouts. No offense or slight intended. Just talking about the vast majority.

On a similar "people on the street" note, my sister has friends with kids in Scouts. All are very involved parents. As to discussing or even mentioning the case? "La, la, la, la, la. I can't hearrrr you. La, la, la, la, la..." Want none of it. Zero. 

Edited August 18, 2021 by ThenNow
Oops.

[ThenNow]

Bench ruling coming down tomorrow at 3:00PM ET.

https://casedocs.omniagentsolutions.com/cmsvol2/pub_47373/cbf4b5e3-c8a1-450e-aa7f-f65e20f40ee7_6084.pdf

Edited August 18, 2021 by ThenNow

[ThenNow]

If someone wants to read through this and summarize, please do. I get the gist of negligent representation, in various forms, but it's interesting from there. I pray this fella is okay, in the midst, regardless the truth in all of this.

https://casedocs.omniagentsolutions.com/cmsvol2/pub_47373/8ecdcd69-dfcf-4ab1-baa9-bcbc334562dc_6082.pdf

[ThenNow]

54 minutes ago, MYCVAStory said:

By virtue of the current RSA those three cannot until October 18 deadline is reached OR the debtor (BSA) ends the RSA voluntarily by submitting a new plan thereby invalidating the existing RSA. 

What if the RSA is rejected for any or all of the seemingly innumerable reasons stated?

Edited August 18, 2021 by ThenNow

[SiouxRanger]

8 hours ago, CynicalScouter said:

Right now, the Methodists and Catholics have the leverage, I agree. But the question is how much of it is a bluff?

I suspect that both churches have solid leverage with little bluff in it.  What organization needs substantial legal liability with little to nothing tangible to show for it?  And when so bit, do you stick around to be bit again?

And, the churches may well use that leverage to obtain better terms in the bankruptcy, AND THEN, drop out as CO's in the future having determined that National is unable to adequately protect them in the future.   That seems to be the finesse play for the the Methodist and Catholic interests.

If National believes the Methodists and Catholics will drop out as CO's in the future, then National will likely steam ahead with any path that provides no relief to these CO's and preserves maximum benefits to National.

However, if National takes that course, it is a Rubicon moment as National may lose substantial membership due to dropped Methodist and Catholic units, and lose a substantial number of free meeting places.  Suitable free meeting space is not easy to obtain.  And, where will units keep their "scout rooms" where all their equipment is close at hand? Are units to be left to figure this out? Hardly a polished program "roll out."

That National's plan already leaves these CO's exposed, it seems to be a clear indication of National's willingness to "go it alone."

Or, National may have initially proposed a plan that leaves the CO's completely exposed to scare them into taking any deal that gives them some coverage, though far from what the CO's would prefer.  Sort of the "we'll threaten them into line" approach.

From all I can determine, National's bankruptcy plan is half-baked, but perhaps intentionally so:

That "mediation continues," as I've read in a few places, seems to indicate that National intentionally filed a plan that would alarm the many interests hoping to mediate its way to getting the other interests to accept much less than those interests would have been able to command in the absence of a pending bankruptcy.

In effect, National is saying, "We filed a plan that leaves you out in the cold, and we are willing to concede a little, but, if you don't take what we offer, well, time is short..."

A way to treat one's friends?

(Not often that "Texas Hold'em" is played in a Delaware court.)