Chapter 11 Announced - Part 4 Revised Plan

[ThenNow]

41 minutes ago, yknot said:

It's another thing if the relationship turns chilly or even hostile and a facility use agreement might be problematic.

As with my thoughts about Mosby’s “equitable compensation” to “all victims,” they set themselves up for this ire, which I think is already there. They played up how important COs are to the future of Scouting and then failed to include them in this process, as they rushed to the altar. Misters Ryan and Buchbinder made that clear without mincing words. As I probably said, Mr. B. was downright befuddled and seriously agitated about how they could be so dense and wind up fighting with a large group they deemed critical to carrying out their mission. The financial ramifications of mass defection and unwillingness to do even facility use agreements are, well, RIP BSA. 

I think it’s 100% an unveiled threat. (Altar...Veil...)

Edited August 17, 2021 by ThenNow

[johnsch322]

4 minutes ago, ThenNow said:

As with my thoughts about Mosby’s “equitable compensation” to “all victims,” they set themselves up for this ire, which I think is already there. They played up how important COs are to the future of Scouting and then failed to include them in this process, as they rushed to the altar. Misters Ryan and Buchbinder made that clear without mincing words. As I probably said, Mr. B. was downright befuddled and seriously agitated about how they could be so dense and wind up fighting with a large group they deemed critical to carrying out their mission. The financial ramifications of mass defection and unwillingness to do even facility use agreements are, well, RIP BSA. 

I think it’s 100% an unveiled threat. (Altar...Veil...)

All of this is arrogance on the part of the BSA.  We have an abuse problem, but it's not very big. Equitable Compensation, the abused survivors will take pennies on the dollar and go away happy.  Our CO's which are mission critical would never desert us, because they need us.  Reach out to an abused scout and help him out, hell no we have millions more where he came from.

[yknot]

41 minutes ago, ThenNow said:

As with my thoughts about Mosby’s “equitable compensation” to “all victims,” they set themselves up for this ire, which I think is already there. They played up how important COs are to the future of Scouting and then failed to include them in this process, as they rushed to the altar. Misters Ryan and Buchbinder made that clear without mincing words. As I probably said, Mr. B. was downright befuddled and seriously agitated about how they could be so dense and wind up fighting with a large group they deemed critical to carrying out their mission. The financial ramifications of mass defection and unwillingness to do even facility use agreements are, well, RIP BSA. 

I think it’s 100% an unveiled threat. (Altar...Veil...)

Yes, it's just incomprehensible. But so much about present day life is. I don't know whether BSA is damning themselves by behaving this way, or if they've just learned to play by survive at all cost rules like everyone else. There is so much commentary about how the woke world has destroyed scouting and yet I see it as a slow collapse from within. 

[gpurlee]

A few random observations from watching this bankruptcy unfold over the past several months:

The focus has clearly been on protecting the national organization first and then the local councils. The appearance that the national BSA has given is that the relationships with the chartered organizations have been an afterthought.

What I am seeing playing out on the local level is that several chartered organizations are either planning or discussing dropping Scouting all together and avoiding the facility use option. There is a crisis of confidence and trust that has developed between the CO’s and the Scouting organization that threatens to undo more than a century of partnership. While the United Methodists and the Roman Catholics are in the forefront with their objections, you can bet that the majority of other CO’s will follow their lead. It is also a safe bet that few other community organizations will step forward to sponsor or even simply provide space to Scouting groups.  

The pandemic has had a devastating impact on the BSA organization. And the latest spike of the Delta variant threatens to cripple yet another year of recruitment. The Cub program, which is the feeder for troops, is especially at risk. The loss of two years of membership recruitment combined with wave after wave of negative publicity may well have a lasting impact on the program that will be difficult to recover from.

I am disappointed that the BSA has often appeared tone deaf to the victims. Any public statements appear to have been well prepared by a PR firm and carefully vetted by a team of attorneys – and don’t convey a tone of sincere compassion. The reality is that too often we have failed youth and families who trusted the BSA to provide a safe program with devastating consequences. .We have promoted ourselves as being a values based organization. Yet, the BSA is in danger of winning in a court of law yet losing in the court of public opinion unless we can demonstrate this.

[MYCVAStory]

11 hours ago, CynicalScouter said:

Kennedy at 9:52 said "We know that there are cynical people out there...we know that there are volunteer scouters out there, we read the forums..."

Hi Dr. Kennedy!

And a shout out around then to "then now" as well!

[ThenNow]

7 hours ago, MYCVAStory said:

And a shout out around then to "then now" as well!

Finally! I’m famous. I always knew it would happen one day. 😬 Did he comment on my overall gentility, haberdashery and, of course, my coif? Oh, yeah. He can’t see me. Dang it.

My agent will be accepting applications for the T/N Fan Club officer positions starting at 9:00AM ET. 

Thank you. Thank you very much.

Edited August 18, 2021 by ThenNow

[ThenNow]

“Hey, now, hey, now. Don’t dream it’s over...” Guess I missed this. Bam! https://www.jsonline.com/story/news/2021/05/27/clergy-abuse-what-know-proposed-wisconsin-child-victims-act/5165648001/

Excerpts:

A proposed bill that would allow survivors of childhood sexual abuse to hold their abuser accountable is facing an uncertain future in the state Legislature. 

The Child Victims Act would allow survivors to pursue civil action against their abuser or the organization that employed the person, removing the current limitation that allows a person to pursue action only until they turn 35 years old. The bill, survivors say, would allow them to finally feel a sense of justice, share their stories as adults and hopefully prevent future crimes from taking place. 

The bill has been proposed time and again before the Legislature, only to stall in committee. But now that an investigation into sexual abuse by religious leaders has been opened by the state Department of Justice, survivors and their advocates are once again hopeful. 

Here's what you need to know about the potential legislation: 

What is the Child Victims Act? 

The bill would allow survivors of childhood sexual abuse to pursue civil action against their abuser or the organization that employed the abuser without a time limit to bring the claim to police or the courts. The legislation would not change the amount of time a survivor has to seek criminal action against an abuser. 

#####

Has the legislation been reintroduced this year?

Legislators have not formally introduced the Child Victims Act this year, but Sen. Melissa Agard, D-Madison, said she’s working with colleagues on both sides of the aisle to re-introduce the measure.

Gov. Tony Evers has signaled he would likely sign the bill if it reached his desk.

[Eagle1993]

10 hours ago, gpurlee said:

I am disappointed that the BSA has often appeared tone deaf to the victims. Any public statements appear to have been well prepared by a PR firm and carefully vetted by a team of attorneys – and don’t convey a tone of sincere compassion. The reality is that too often we have failed youth and families who trusted the BSA to provide a safe program with devastating consequences. .We have promoted ourselves as being a values based organization. Yet, the BSA is in danger of winning in a court of law yet losing in the court of public opinion unless we can demonstrate this.

"It's tough to make predictions, especially about the future." - Yogi Berra

Yogi is 100% correct ... but I'll venture out a bit as it relates to bankruptcy.  I'm not convinced most parents care about the bankruptcy.  Occasionally it comes up ... but they see our Pack is lead by parents they know.  We are not strangers and there is still some interest in scouting.  I really doubt that amount BSA pays has any impact on recruiting.  The real impact on the program going forward will be a mix of Covid, volunteers and what families value.

[ThenNow]

1 hour ago, ThenNow said:

“Hey, now, hey, now. Don’t dream it’s over...” Guess I missed this. Bam! https://www.jsonline.com/story/news/2021/05/27/clergy-abuse-what-know-proposed-wisconsin-child-victims-act/5165648001/

UPDATE: Just spoke with CHILDUSA Advocacy, the legislative arm of CHILDUSA, and they said, “We plan on working with Senator Agard to pass SoL reform in Wisconsin.”

And, just noticed that Senator Agard is on the Board of Director’s for the Glacier’s Edge Council. Innerestin’. 

Edited August 18, 2021 by ThenNow

[Eagledad]

1 hour ago, Eagle1993 said:

"It's tough to make predictions, especially about the future." - Yogi Berra

Yogi is 100% correct ... but I'll venture out a bit as it relates to bankruptcy.  I'm not convinced most parents care about the bankruptcy.  Occasionally it comes up ... but they see our Pack is lead by parents they know.  We are not strangers and there is still some interest in scouting.  I really doubt that amount BSA pays has any impact on recruiting.  The real impact on the program going forward will be a mix of Covid, volunteers and what families value.

I agree. I've yet to talk to anyone who cares how this comes out. They believe Scouting will move on as it has.

I remember when many folks believe the gay restriction would kill the BSA, then they said allowing gays would kill the BSA. Some felt restricting ashiest will kill the BSA. Restricting girls was killing the program. Admitting girls will kill the program.

Just about every person who I saw give these predictions had a history of other anti-BSA rants.. 

The BSA is a 110 years old, give or take, and has the distinct reputation of developing values and character in the scouts who participated. General quotes that the BSA is unsafe or the BSA neglects the scouts doesn't really ring in a culture where teachers, ministers, coaches and family members are in the news everyday for child abuse. Folks know that scout units are run by parents and friends, not the BSA. It's the BSA, it's the Scout Leader parents and the bad ones are in the other unit down the street. 

If the BSA survives bankruptcy, scouting will go on because it provides the parents with a program of developing values and provides the scouts a program of fun. And frankly, when compared to other youth organizations, the BSA is safer than most. 

Barry

Edited August 18, 2021 by Eagledad

[CynicalScouter]

1 hour ago, Eagle1993 said:

"It's tough to make predictions, especially about the future." - Yogi Berra

That's why the next few weeks are an utter murky mess.

The RSA being accepted, rejected, or accepted with modifications by the court could have only a passing relationship with whether the full Reorg Plan goes to a vote this fall. BSA's already financially plotted out what happens if they cannot emerge until March 2022 and that slide was presented in the hearing (short version: cash flow and cash reserves drop to near zero, things like the OA fund, the endowment, and other "restricted" funds get raided for cash).

There's also a possibility, small as it is, that with the ongoing negotiations/mediation with the insurers that we'll wake up one more to "BSA reaches $# billion settlement with its insurers". The judge has said over and over a truly global settlement (COs, LCs, insurers, BSA, etc.) is the preferable option.

Where there is a will, there is a way, but that way may not always be a just way. The Hartford deal was an example. Yes, BSA cut that deal, but it was so objectionable to everyone else, it was DOA (or maybe, who knows).

[SiouxRanger]

16 hours ago, CynicalScouter said:

The Ad Hoc Committees for Roman Catholic Dioceses and the Methodist Churches filed their joint objections to the BSA plans.

Despite happy talk from the United Methodist FB group about how Methodists remain committed to the BSA, the filing says quite the opposite.

https://casedocs.omniagentsolutions.com/cmsvol2/pub_47373/e118c88c-cfc9-48f8-9cd6-5e3967d21d9f_6067.pdf

Does anyone know where in the bankruptcy procedure objections such as these are likely to be argued?  Will they actually be argued orally, or simply considered by the Judge from the pleadings with no oral argument?

Thank you.

[CynicalScouter]

43 minutes ago, SiouxRanger said:

Does anyone know where in the bankruptcy procedure objections such as these are likely to be argued?  Will they actually be argued orally, or simply considered by the Judge from the pleadings with no oral argument?

They will come up at oral argument at the Disclosure Statement hearing August 25.

Now, there are literally dozens and dozens of objections (or more accurately a dozen or so objections to that dozens of others have "joined", which is is legaleeze for "Yeah, what they said, we say." So I would NOT expect dozens and dozens of objectors. But a dozen or more? Possibly.

The ones that are almost certain to object orally and at great length

1. LDS Church
2. Methodists/Catholics
3. "Certain Insurers" (some of the lesser/lower value insurers are grouped together, but they MAY each argue separately)
4. Century
5. Hartford (if the the judge allows BSA to drop the Hartford deal)
6. US Trustee
7. Victims represented by the Zalkin Law Firm

Others include the TCC, the FCR, and the Coalition IF the RSA is rejected OR accepted by the judge with changes that make it unacceptable to the TCC/FCR/Coalition.

EDIT: I should note that this hearing will start August 25. No one thinks for a second it will be done that day. It could take weeks (as in multiple days spread out over 2-3 weeks) just to get this all done.

 

Edited August 18, 2021 by CynicalScouter

[Eagle1993]

24 minutes ago, CynicalScouter said:

EDIT: I should note that this hearing will start August 25. No one thinks for a second it will be done that day. It could take weeks (as in multiple days spread out over 2-3 weeks) just to get this all done.

I question if this date can be held.  There is still no ruling on the RSA.  There is no official Disclosure document.  Mediation is still ongoing with COs & insurance companies late this week.

One lever these COs have that is outside bankruptcy court is to simply pull charters during recruiting.  Could you imagine the pain they could cause if they send letters out to all of their units stating January 1, 2022 they will no longer charter the units?  There have been a few instances of this, but really localized.  If BSA submits their next plan, without CO coverage, those shots could go national.

So, I have a hard time seeing the BSA having an official plan without COs included (at least the top COs).  I expect BSA is aware of the shots over the bow that the Methodist and Catholic churches have already launched and the churn that has already caused.  I cannot imagine that during recruiting season, BSA would want one of every three of their charters being threated.  I also expect the COs realize their best hope is to be in the next offer ... otherwise, they will be sitting ducks in state court with no BSA and no insurance coverage (in many cases) to back them up.

So ... we that Aug 25 date seems optimistic.  The plan may not include COs in the end, but I expect the TCC, BSA and COs will ask for more time to get to a mediated solution.  

All of this assumes the RSA is approved.  If it is rejected ... well ... 

[CynicalScouter]

Judge entered an order today regarding BSA's exclusivity time. In short, by statute, BSA can have up to 18 months from filing of the bankruptcy to be the exclusive entity that can propose a reorganization plan. Technically, the last extension expired in May, but there a "Delaware bridge" which gives an automatic extension when requested.

The judge's order confirmed that the BSA's time runs out August 18 and that their time to exclusively solicit votes for a plan ends October 18.

https://casedocs.omniagentsolutions.com/cmsvol2/pub_47373/474026c0-2a8b-4a8d-b7bb-db3e57711f8d_6076.pdf

What this means is that starting tomorrow, TCC/FCR/Coalition or any party can file their own reorganization plan for BSA and starting October 19, with the court's permission, send it out for a vote.