Is laser tag allowed?

[starwolfmom]

Our November pack meeting is scheduled to be an evening of laser tag at a local laser tag emporium. The boys, of course, are thrilled at this idea.

 

However, in the back of my mind, I seem to recall that BSA doesn't allow for official troop/pack activities that involve "gun play," except in the case of supervised target shooting. I know that my older son's troop nixed the PLC's idea for a laser tag outing--saying that the boys could get together on their own, outside of Scouts, to play, but that it couldn't be a troop-sanctioned event.

 

Does anyone know chapter and verse on this issue? I don't want to be a party-pooper, but I don't want the pack to get in trouble for hosting an event that's "illegal" by BSA standards, either.

 

Thanks. Elizabeth

[OldGreyEagle]

You are correct Ma'am, although I share your concern about letting the boys down, it should never have been scheduled. Check out the Sports and Activities : Unauthorized and Restricted Activities section to the Guide to Safe Scouting

 

http://www.scouting.org/pubs/gss/toc.html

 

 

[EagleInKY]

This has been discussed before, if you do a search. It is specifically prohibited.

 

Guide to Safe Scouting, Section IX - Sports and Activities

 

Pointing any type of firearm (including paintball, dye, or lasers) at any individual is unauthorized. However, law enforcement departments and agencies using firearms in standard officer/agent training may use their training agenda when accompanied with appropriate safety equipment in the Law Enforcement Venturing program.

[scoutldr]

As I recall, the discussion got quite heated. IMHO, the reason for the rule is that the killing of other humans, even though simulated, violates several points of the Scout Oath and Law. Somehow 12 year olds never see it that way.

[starwolfmom]

Thank you all for your quick response. I guess I'll be making an unpopular phone call to our Cubmaster this evening.

 

Elizabeth

[starwolfmom]

Well, I ended up talking to my son's den leader (who is also our pack treasurer and the cubmaster's right hand). I told her about the laser tag being against regs for safe scouting and let her know that I didn't want us to get into any trouble.

 

She didn't know that it was against the rules. In fact, she had submitted our game plan to the DE (or somebody at the council office) more than a week ago, and hadn't heard anything from him to the effect that we couldn't do it. She plans to give him a call today to check. (Of course, our council office is already under the watchful eye of national for not doing several things "by the books," so it wouldn't surprise me in the least if they were lackadaisical about safe scouting regs).

 

Elizabeth

[FScouter]

When you say you "submitted our game plan to the DE" does that mean you submitted a tour permit that said "LASER TAG" for the itinerary? Did you get back your tour permit approved and signed?

[starwolfmom]

She didn't call it a "tour permit," but I'm guessing that's what it was. She doesn't have it back signed yet. I think it was getting passed along up whatever channels they have there at the council office, but no one had contacted her to tell her 'no way' yet. and I don't know if it said "Laser Tag," or "Zap Zone" (the name of the place) on it. Maybe the guys at the council office don't know that Zap Zone is a laser tag joint?

 

Elizabeth

[romboman]

We have taken out our boys numerous times to play paintball, and other such "forbidden" activities. What is extremely important to understand, is that our outing was a group of friends who happened to be in the same scout unit. No tour permit, etc. These outings were not SCOUT functions, and it must be clear to all who participate that no uniforms are worn. We happen to be a group of friends with a common interest. so don't cancel the event, but make it very clear that you are having some fun together OUTSIDE of the scouting program.

[Bob White]

Romboman

 

When and where do make this clear to them?

 

What message do you think this sends to them about circumventing authority?

 

 

[evmori]

Doesn't make any difference, Bob. If a group of friends want to play paint ball, if they do it just as friends, they can even if they happen to be in the same Pack/Troop. The BSA doesn't control our everyday lives outside of Scouting.

 

Ed Mori

Troop 1

1 Peter 4:10

[EagleInKY]

We've had this dicussion before. It all depends upon how it is planned.

 

Let's say it goes down this way. The PLC decides they want to do lazer tag. They know it's against the G2SS so they declare it an "unofficial activity". They pick a date and communicate it to the troop in troop meetings. It's mentioned at the troop committee meeting as well. All the while, they're saying "but it's not an official scout event". Then, I feel you are doing what Bob is alluding to, teaching the boys how to circumvent the rules.

 

Now let's say a group of scouts get together after a meeting, on the phone, on the school bus, in the school lunchroom, or wherever, and decide they want to do this. They get on the phone or e-mail notify everyone that they are going to play lazer tag. They tell them it's not an official event, and that they're just having fun. Then that is a legitimate activity. As Ed says, the BSA doesn't control every aspect of their lives.

[Bob White]

I agree with Eagle, which is why I asked the question. When Romboman says "We have taken out our boys numerous times to play paintball, and other such "forbidden" activities."

If by "our boys" he means the scouts in the troop he serves, then he is violating BSA policy.

 

If a scout were injured you can bet a laywer is going to go after the BSA the Troop Leaders and the CO. If romboman wants to endanger his own finances that's one thing. But what gives him the right to include the BSA after they told him not to do the activity, and the savings of the CO and its membership who likely had no idea of the illicit event.

 

When he said " and it must be clear to all who participate that no uniforms are worn."

 

That is a dodge. If he thinks the only thing that keeps this from being a scouting event is the uniform he is woefully wrong. If this was discussed at any scout function or through the troop communication tools, or chaparoned by the scout leaders then this is indeed a scout event.

 

What does this teach the boys. If they want to go play lazer tag let them go. But be honest with them. Tell them that pointing weapons at other people is not an activity supported by the BSA. they will have to plan and do that activity outside of scouting, without the scout leaders.

 

We do not control all aspects of their life, but we are expected to control the scouting part and if you don't think what you do makes a difference...then you are probably right.

 

BW

 

 

[Scoutmaster Ron]

If it is discussed at a troop meeting or included in the weekly troop announcement e-mails it can be easily implied that it's a sanctioned event

[fling1]

I have seen this argument go around several times already, and I know that the concensus on this board is that "laser tag" is outlawed by the G2SS prohibition against "pointing any type of firearm (including paintball, dye, or lasers) at any individual" (which actually appears in bold and denotes policy).

But just LAST NIGHT (how timely is that?), I was reading my new "Fireside Chat" (the council newspaper that comes every other month in Dan Beard Council), and saw an advertisement that said, "Make your next Scout outing great. Come to Laser World (or whatever it was)." It specifically advertised the facility for "scout outings" and it is a multi-story indoor laser tag emporium.

My personal feeling (which I have not passed on to our scouts) is that if the game does not involve actual lasers, (like the military issue MILES gear) then it is not prohibited in G2SS. Maybe my council approved the ad because it shares that opinion? If I learn something more specific about their position on this, I'll pass it along.

Just another data point.  Carry on...