Unit refuses to hold elections

[David CO]

5 hours ago, mrjohns2 said:

The CO doesn’t follow Scouts everywhere the go, nor are they responsible for them everywhere is unfounded.  To think they should is crazy and very controlling.

I don't like this 24/7 thing either, but this is the world we live in.  Recent events make it pretty clear that institutions are not immune from responsibility for actions that take place outside of their watch.  It is not so far-fetched to imagine that a CO might face problems as a result of OA elections. 

Instead of complaining about unit non-participation in OA elections, OA would do better by adjusting its rules to allow OA elections to take place without any unit or CO participation.  OA created this problem and OA can fix it.  

There is no need for OA members and unit scouters to clash over policies that OA could easily change.  This should not be my problem.  Take it to OA.

Edited June 20, 2021 by David CO

[scoutldr]

As I recall my days in OA, the Scoutmaster begins the process by developing a list of scouts who are qualified for election, based on rank, # of nights camped, and last but not least, "Scout Spirit".  Not sure how Scouts could enter the process without that step.  I also agree that, beyond election night, OA participation is not a Unit responsibility.  Back in my day, it was up to me to decide which OA events to attend and arrange for my own transportation.  If my unit leaders attended, it was only because they were also OA members and were there providing "cheerful service" to the Lodge or Chapter.  It was not their job to "supervise" me as a member of their unit, nor was it their job to make sure I had transportation.  If the COs are going to be held responsible for what happens at OA events, then that changes the whole dynamic and OA as we know it will cease to exist.  Some may view that as a good thing...I do not.  OA is what kept me in Scouting and on the trail to Eagle.

[mrjohns2]

7 hours ago, David CO said:

Once again, you are making my point.  OA is not a unit activity.

What is the point? Not everything in Scouts revolves around the unit. Not a unit activity, not the responsibility of the unit. 

[David CO]

5 hours ago, mrjohns2 said:

What is the point? Not everything in Scouts revolves around the unit. Not a unit activity, not the responsibility of the unit. 

If we have learned anything from the scandals and bankruptcy, it is that BSA cannot be depended upon to safeguard our kids.  The Chartered Organizations need to step up and take responsibility.  We can't rely on any other outside group to do it.  Safeguarding our kids is our responsibility.

[Oldscout448]

43 minutes ago, David CO said:

If we have learned anything from the scandals and bankruptcy, it is that BSA cannot be depended upon to safeguard our kids.  The Chartered Organizations need to step up and take responsibility.  We can't rely on any other outside group to do it.  Safeguarding our kids is our responsibility.

Ok, I think I finally see where you are coming from.  It is obvious from your posts over the years that you care deeply about the kids.  I applaud.  long and loud. 

Yet there has to be a point where we let them spread their wings and fly. Short flights in good weather near the nest at first, of course. Then gradually farther and higher as they get stronger and wiser. Scouters and parents know there always comes a day when the kids are going  to go solo.  Whether we think they are ready or not 

Our job is to make them as prepared as we can for that day.  I do not believe that we can do that by constantly hovering over them. I might even go so far as to say that we do them a disservice by doing so 

So yeah, I let my kids go to OA functions, Jamborees, Philmont, Provo summer camp... They came back tired, sunburned and more confident. Proud that they had risen to the challenge.

So when it came time for them to go to college hundreds of miles away, I wasn't too worried.  

 

Edited June 20, 2021 by Oldscout448

[David CO]

42 minutes ago, Oldscout448 said:

So yeah, I let my kids go to OA functions, Jamborees, Philmont, Provo summer camp... They came back tired, sunburned and more confident.

I am very glad to hear that your kids are OK.  Not everyone was so lucky.  Some were scarred for life.  

[Oldscout448]

5 hours ago, David CO said:

I am very glad to hear that your kids are OK.  Not everyone was so lucky.  Some were scarred for life.  

That is sadly true.  There are predators out there, the two legged kind. I've met a few. Some in church, some in Scouting, as well as a few other places.  Some people I care very much about have been deeply hurt by these (insert unscoutlike word). 

You are doing what you think is right to protect those in your charge and I commend you for it. 

Peace 

 

[Rock Doc]

On 6/18/2021 at 4:54 PM, David CO said:

How many units are in a Lodge?  

Our Lodge consists of three chapters each representing dozens of units. Total Lodge membership is north of 600

[mrjohns2]

8 hours ago, Rock Doc said:

Our Lodge consists of three chapters each representing dozens of units. Total Lodge membership is north of 600

Our lodge has 1500 members that come from many troops, maybe 300+ troops.

[Armymutt]

On 6/20/2021 at 1:15 AM, David CO said:

Instead of complaining about unit non-participation in OA elections, OA would do better by adjusting its rules to allow OA elections to take place without any unit or CO participation.  OA created this problem and OA can fix it.  

There is no need for OA members and unit scouters to clash over policies that OA could easily change.  This should not be my problem.  Take it to OA.

I'm still confused by this thought process.  Maybe it stems from a misunderstanding of "OA elections" and "OA elections".  Election to select candidates for the Ordeal are a unit function.  They are supervised by the OA members, who may or may not be members of the troop.  OA elections to chose the leadership within the OA is not a unit function, and doesn't happen on unit time.  I'm not clear on how you think that the election of candidates to the OA from the ranks of a unit's Scouts would happen outside the unit.  

[David CO]

1 hour ago, Armymutt said:

Maybe it stems from a misunderstanding of "OA elections" and "OA elections". 

No misunderstanding.

1 hour ago, Armymutt said:

Election to select candidates for the Ordeal are a unit function.  

Since it is a unit function, the unit can choose to do it, or not to do it.  It is our choice.  Not OA's choice.  If OA wants to make it OA's choice, then they need to make the selections an OA function.  

 

Edited September 11, 2021 by David CO

[Oldscout448]

6 hours ago, David CO said:

No misunderstanding.

Since it is a unit function, the unit can choose to do it, or not to do it.  It is our choice.  Not OA's choice.  If OA wants to make it OA's choice, then they need to make the selections an OA function.  

 

As far as I know the OA is the only organization that has its members chosen by nonmembers. There are two important reasons to have a scout chosen by the members of his own unit.  Firstly, they are the ones who know the potential candidate the best.  They have a much better idea who best lives up to the Oath and Law in his daily life than anyone else. Except the scouts family. 

That's actually the primary criteria for admission into the order. There is  a rank and camping experience requirement but the bar is pretty low.

Secondly,  the Order is NOT supposed to be some sort of snobbish elitist club.   It is supposed to be recognizing the best scouts in each troop.  Whatever that "best" may be.  So I respectfully submit that the election of candidates for admission cannot be anything other than unit based.

Edited September 12, 2021 by Oldscout448

[David CO]

24 minutes ago, Oldscout448 said:

As far as I know the OA is the only organization that has its members chosen by nonmembers.

That is their choice.  It does not obligate non-members to cooperate with OA.

I realize this discussion may soon be moot.  If the CO's are out, and the councils end up owning the units, it is entirely possible that the execs will simply require the units to conduct OA elections.

 

[Oldscout448]

It may also become moot if the OA ceases to exist in a few years. Which seems more and more likely.

[David CO]

34 minutes ago, Oldscout448 said:

It may also become moot if the OA ceases to exist in a few years. Which seems more and more likely.

I don't think so.  OA has a better chance at survival than national.